MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



Hang on - I was told when I asked about Miva Mia MVM5 that it WOULD work
with older compiled versions of Miva Merchant - granted that didn't mean
version with OUI in it. But there in lies the rub - if Miva says MVM5 is
backwards compatible then there WILL be hosts that upgrade to it. Not
every host subscribes to this list. Not every Miva Merchant user
subscribes to this list - they usually wind up here after they find out
they have to pay for support when something has broken on their store.


--
Webs Your Way
www.websyourway.com


> Two things to consider here:
>

> no reason to believe that Miva will ever make a downwards compatible
> version
> of the VM just so that older stores can continue to use OUI. They'll only
> release a new version that has that effect if it turns out to be needed to

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



From: Ray Yates
>=20
> As I understand it, Empress5 and Merchant5 not OpenUI compatible "by
> design". That is Miva eliminated from Merchamt5 the feature=20
> that allowed for alternate user interfaces,

That is true.

> in effect, killing the ability of any 3rd party developer from
> substantially enhancing the interface the way OpenUI did.

That's not the case. You can extensively modify the look and
feel of Merchant 5 out of the box via edits to the "Pages"
and "Items" and you can even define your own screen codes
and the templates that make them look the way you want. Here
are some URL's about this:

<A HREF ="http://www.miva.com/docs/merc_5.x_help/page.html">http://www.miva.com/docs/merc_5.x_help/page.html</A>
<A HREF ="http://www.miva.com/docs/merc_5.x_help/template-lang.html">http://www.miva.com/docs/merc_5.x_help/template-lang.html</A>
<A HREF ="http://www.miva.com/docs/merc_5.x_help/tmpb.html">http://www.miva.com/docs/merc_5.x_help/tmpb.html</A>

The largest problem right now is the lack of documentation for
the templates and the lack of documentation developers need
to make things look the way they want.

You can find quite a few modules for Merchant 5 at:
<A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/tk3/v3/doc.htm">http://www.emporiumplus.com/tk3/v3/doc.htm</A>
Bill has many available mods that include mods that
do modification to the look and feel.

David

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



mivalist wrote:
> I assume that it's not
> possible to run two versions of the VM on the same server (maybe you can?)
> but you can certainly keep 4.x stores and 5.x stores on different servers to
> avoid any such conflict. This all may cause a few headaches here and there

One headache would be the importing/moving/copying of old data from the
live 4.x store to the 5.x store being built. The data export (upgrade5)
only exports certain data. If you have data you want to retrieve (both
core and module), you need to have the data on the same server so the
5.x module can retrieve it.

--
Bill Weiland A2Z Emporium Plus <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/store.mvc ">http://www.emporiumplus.com/store.mvc </A>
Modules for eCommerce. Mail Mgr, Coupon, PayPal, Froogle/Yahoo feeds
Rate This, Gift/Wish List, Wait List Mgr, EZ Batch, Shipping & more
Online Documentation <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/docs">http://www.emporiumplus.com/docs</A>
Question <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/mivamodule_wcw.mvc?Screen=SPTS ">http://www.emporiumplus.com/mivamodu...vc?Screen=SPTS </A>
|

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



As I understand it, Empress5 and Merchant5 not OpenUI compatible "by
design". That is Miva eliminated from Merchamt5 the feature that allowed for
alternate user interfaces, in effect, killing the ability of any 3rd party
developer from substantially enhancing the interface the way OpenUI did.
After browsing through the new admin demo there were so many
"missing" features that had become essential to me, as to render the product
un-usable for future stores I plan to developed.

My host is not upgrading or offering to upgrade any existing stores at all
claiming a lack of backward compatibility. They are selling new server
packages with Merchant5, installed and are allowing users a 1 month grace
period, for users willing to "upgrade/migrate", their own stores. When I
asked how many customers were doing that they guy chuckled and said "I can't
really say". I'm not sure what that meant.

Considering my customizations took more than a year to put into place, I see
NO chance that my new store will ever be using Merchant5 at all. I'm
currently looking for something using something less proprietary than
MivaScript (like PHP) as the core technology.

Ray Yates
<A HREF ="http://www.flyinghands.com">http://www.flyinghands.com</A>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



Not being a host, I have no idea what the Merchant/host contracts say but
there are many stores running Merchant 2.x, 3.x, etc. so I don't really see
how this change affects anyone other than by an unknowledgeable host
upgrading the VM and breaking stores on the server. I assume that it's not
possible to run two versions of the VM on the same server (maybe you can?)
but you can certainly keep 4.x stores and 5.x stores on different servers to
avoid any such conflict. This all may cause a few headaches here and there
for hosts who are trying to balance things but it still doesn't seem like a
problem aside from the risk of someone making the upgrade without knowing
the consequences.

Am I missing something?

Dan
Impulse Creations

For low priced back issue comics and the very best in service visit us at
www.impulsecreations.net and be sure to look for information on our
discounted subscription service with free bags and free shipping!

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Tim Traver
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:11 AM
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI

ok all, here's the real problem...

By our hosting contracts, we are not able to sell anything but the
latest Miva Merchant version. This means that we HAVE to run mivavm 5.
But now all of your users that have tokens on in their openUI stores are
broken. And there's no way for us to run mivavm 4.x.

unless....

I think miva should have released the new mivavm and Merchant utilizing
a new extension to solve these issues. They could have used something
like ".mv5" or something. That way, anything with ".mv" is running 3.9,
anything with ".mvc" is running 4.x and ".mv5" is running 5.x...

That would certainly help this situation. I think Miva just assumed that
everything would be completely backwards compatible...

I think I might do that anyways...

Tim.

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



Two things to consider here:

1. Don't ever use a host who would make such a change without your
knowledge.

2. Without getting into whether or not actions on either side are justified,
Miva and most (or at least the most vocal) partners want Darren and OUI
gone. Between that and Miva's continued policy of ignoring end-users there's
no reason to believe that Miva will ever make a downwards compatible version
of the VM just so that older stores can continue to use OUI. They'll only
release a new version that has that effect if it turns out to be needed to
fix other issues as well. I seriously doubt that they made this change
simply to encourage people to drop OUI and upgrade to Merchant 5 but having
that effect is certainly a plus for Miva which again makes them disinclined
to change it.

Dan
Impulse Creations

For low priced back issue comics and the very best in service visit us at
www.impulsecreations.net and be sure to look for information on our
discounted subscription service with free bags and free shipping!

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Miva Lists - Webs
Your Way
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI

Question: What happens to the folks using OUI who have a host that
upgrades to MVM 5 without their knowledge? I'm sure there will be some
host out there that will do this. It will in turn kill many MM 4.X stores.
Another thing to consider too - when requesting Miva Mia you given the MVM
5.X version.

--
Webs Your Way
www.websyourway.com

> Unfortunately, since the OpenUI has reached it's "end-of-life", supporting
> a
> new platform (MivaVM v5) is both a large initial project (substantial
> regression testing), as well as an on-going support issue (such as
> supporting v5.03, v5.04, v6.0, etc).
>
> Due to the substantial changes in MivaVM v5, to consider it as anything
> other then a "new platform" would be disingenuous. If I were to expend
> the
> time/effort to officially support MivaVM v5, it would definitely have to
> entail an upgrade cost, and since I'm not aware of any real benefit to the
> end-user for using the new MivaVM v5 with an older v4.x store, I'm not
> sure
> it would be cost effective for very many stores.
>
> Darren Ehlers
> OpenUI Consortium
> <A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>
>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



ok all, here's the real problem...

By our hosting contracts, we are not able to sell anything but the
latest Miva Merchant version. This means that we HAVE to run mivavm 5.
But now all of your users that have tokens on in their openUI stores are
broken. And there's no way for us to run mivavm 4.x.

unless....

I think miva should have released the new mivavm and Merchant utilizing
a new extension to solve these issues. They could have used something
like ".mv5" or something. That way, anything with ".mv" is running 3.9,
anything with ".mvc" is running 4.x and ".mv5" is running 5.x...

That would certainly help this situation. I think Miva just assumed that
everything would be completely backwards compatible...

I think I might do that anyways...

Tim.

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



From: Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus=20
>=20
> My point wasn't that a new feature is a weakness. It's that=20
> when Empresa 5 kills previous apps and isn't downward
> compatible, that's a weakness.

I'm not a developer so I can't speak as if I know
what this issue is, but if the error is caused by
doing something in a way that is contrary to what
Miva's MivaScript documentation said at the time, but
that Empresa previously tolerated, then I can't fault
Miva for that change. If however, Miva did something
similar to MySQL with version 4.1 and re-defined how
pre-existing functions work, how variables are used,
defined and/or assigned, etc., then they should offer
a compatibility mode and I would hold them at fault
for the problematic results.

> When people upgraded from XP to XP2, and one of their
> programs broke, they blamed Microsoft, not the program
> developers. It's not a fix to make software work
> on newer platforms it wasn't designed for.

We do not know if the problem has resulted from a
use of the language that is outside the specification
or if it is from Miva changing the specification without
warning or without a way to keep things working.

> The word "fix" is inappropriate to the situation.

Until the problem's cause has been determined without
doubt, no one can say.

> The natural process would be for OpenUI 5 to be released,
> of course, but I won't get into that mess again. Maybe=20
> people/hosts would be willing to pay Darren for an
> Empresa 5 compatible OpenUI 4 upgrade? Or maybe
> hosts will just wait until there's an Empresa version
> that is downward compatible...

We complained to Miva loudly when Empresa 5 broke
version 4 stores; their updates have been starting to
address these issues but I think there are still some
lingering ones left as Jason pointed out.

David

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



From: Miva Lists - Webs Your Way
>=20
> Question: What happens to the folks using OUI who have a host that
> upgrades to MVM 5 without their knowledge? I'm sure there will be

Their stores break. :-)

David

> some host out there that will do this. It will in turn kill many=20
> MM 4.X stores. Another thing to consider too - when requesting Miva
Mia you=20
> given the MVM
> 5.X version.
>=20
> --=20
> Webs Your Way
> www.websyourway.com
>=20
> > Unfortunately, since the OpenUI has reached it's=20
> "end-of-life", supporting
> > a
> > new platform (MivaVM v5) is both a large initial project=20
> (substantial
> > regression testing), as well as an on-going support issue (such as
> > supporting v5.03, v5.04, v6.0, etc).
> >
> > Due to the substantial changes in MivaVM v5, to consider it=20
> as anything
> > other then a "new platform" would be disingenuous. If I=20
> were to expend
> > the
> > time/effort to officially support MivaVM v5, it would=20
> definitely have to
> > entail an upgrade cost, and since I'm not aware of any real=20
> benefit to the
> > end-user for using the new MivaVM v5 with an older v4.x=20
> store, I'm not
> > sure
> > it would be cost effective for very many stores.
> >
> > Darren Ehlers
> > OpenUI Consortium
> > <A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



Question: What happens to the folks using OUI who have a host that
upgrades to MVM 5 without their knowledge? I'm sure there will be some
host out there that will do this. It will in turn kill many MM 4.X stores.
Another thing to consider too - when requesting Miva Mia you given the MVM
5.X version.

--
Webs Your Way
www.websyourway.com

> Unfortunately, since the OpenUI has reached it's "end-of-life", supporting
> a
> new platform (MivaVM v5) is both a large initial project (substantial
> regression testing), as well as an on-going support issue (such as
> supporting v5.03, v5.04, v6.0, etc).
>
> Due to the substantial changes in MivaVM v5, to consider it as anything
> other then a "new platform" would be disingenuous. If I were to expend
> the
> time/effort to officially support MivaVM v5, it would definitely have to
> entail an upgrade cost, and since I'm not aware of any real benefit to the
> end-user for using the new MivaVM v5 with an older v4.x store, I'm not
> sure
> it would be cost effective for very many stores.
>
> Darren Ehlers
> OpenUI Consortium
> <A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>
>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



--------------080101020706010407040304
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gotcha.

Scott
SEBENZA.COM
Miva Development

Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
<A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>



Darren Ehlers wrote:

>Unfortunately, since the OpenUI has reached it's "end-of-life", supporting a
>new platform (MivaVM v5) is both a large initial project (substantial
>regression testing), as well as an on-going support issue (such as
>supporting v5.03, v5.04, v6.0, etc).
>
>Due to the substantial changes in MivaVM v5, to consider it as anything
>other then a "new platform" would be disingenuous. If I were to expend the
>time/effort to officially support MivaVM v5, it would definitely have to
>entail an upgrade cost, and since I'm not aware of any real benefit to the
>end-user for using the new MivaVM v5 with an older v4.x store, I'm not sure
>it would be cost effective for very many stores.
>
>Darren Ehlers
>OpenUI Consortium
><A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [email protected]
>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>Sebenza Lists
>>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:24 AM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Cc: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>>
>>
>>I dont think he is obligated to upgrade the OpenUI to "address" the
>>issue. But it would be nice as a service to his thousands of
>>customers.
>>
>>Scott
>>SEBENZA.COM
>>Miva Development
>>
>>Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>My point wasn't that a new feature is a weakness. It's that
>>>
>>>
>>when Empresa 5
>>
>>
>>>kills previous apps and isn't downward compatible, that's a
>>>
>>>
>>weakness. When
>>
>>
>>>people upgraded from XP to XP2, and one of their programs
>>>
>>>
>>broke, they blamed
>>
>>
>>>Microsoft, not the program developers. It's not a fix to
>>>
>>>
>>make software work
>>
>>
>>>on newer platforms it wasn't designed for. The word "fix" is
>>>
>>>
>>inappropriate
>>
>>
>>>to the situation. The natural process would be for OpenUI 5
>>>
>>>
>>to be released,
>>
>>
>>>of course, but I won't get into that mess again. Maybe
>>>
>>>
>>people/hosts would be
>>
>>
>>>willing to pay Darren for an Empresa 5 compatible OpenUI 4
>>>
>>>
>>upgrade? Or maybe
>>
>>
>>>hosts will just wait until there's an Empresa version that
>>>
>>>
>>is downward
>>
>>
>>>compatible...
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: [email protected]
>>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>>>Nicholas Vrtis
>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:48 AM
>>>>Cc: [email protected]
>>>>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>>>>
>>>>Well, I hope that Darren provides a fix, but I do agree that
>>>>OpenUI is
>>>>designed for 4x....
>>>>
>>>>But I will strongly disagree that subscript checking in 5x is a
>>>>"weakness"... Subscripts out of range are "really bad
>>>>
>>>>
>>things".. they
>>
>>
>>>>introduce bugs that are difficult to find, unpredictable,
>>>>cause problems
>>>>to other innocent programs, and are the source of many
>>>>
>>>>
>>hacking holes.
>>
>>
>>>>Nick
>>>>
>>>>Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Wonder if Darren will fix what? OpenUI is designed to work
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>with Empresa 4x
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>versions. 5x not being backwards compatible is not an OpenUI
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>problem. Now,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>maybe Darren will update OpenUI to accomodate weaknesses in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Empresa 5x, I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>don't know, but it's certainly not a "fix."
>>>>>
>>>>>Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: [email protected]
>>>>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>Sebenza Lists
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:14 PM
>>>>>>To: William Weiland
>>>>>>Cc: [email protected]
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yep... Just another fun task to overcome. I wonder if Darren
>>>>>>will fix this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Scott
>>>>>>SEBENZA.COM
>>>>>>Miva Development
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
>>>>>><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>William Weiland wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sebenza Lists wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks Bill.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You are welcome. It must have something to do with a token
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>array and a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>0 or blank value in the index. You could get away with it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>in 4.x; but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>5.x revealed the anomaly and left legacy code vulnerable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It took me an hour and completely uninstalling about 30
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>modules in our
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>test store until I found it was not module related at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Turned off
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the tokens and it worked. By then there was on one token
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>left in the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>whole store so it wasn't quite as ugly as Jason's example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Scott
>>>>>>>>SEBENZA.COM
>>>>>>>>Miva Development
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
>>>>>>>><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>William Weiland wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sebenza Lists wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone have a store running smoothly on MivaVM
>>>>>>>> 5.02 with OpenUI? I just
>>>>>>>> upgraded a site and now get the following error
>>>>>>>> from OpenUI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fatal error in ouisub.mvc @ [00000496:0000002a]:
>>>>>>>> Line 5000: Array index
>>>>>>>> must be positive integer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the openui admin disable tokens. That may get you
>>>>>>>> running again. It
>>>>>>>> won't be pretty, but it should work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



Unfortunately, since the OpenUI has reached it's "end-of-life", supporting a
new platform (MivaVM v5) is both a large initial project (substantial
regression testing), as well as an on-going support issue (such as
supporting v5.03, v5.04, v6.0, etc).

Due to the substantial changes in MivaVM v5, to consider it as anything
other then a "new platform" would be disingenuous. If I were to expend the
time/effort to officially support MivaVM v5, it would definitely have to
entail an upgrade cost, and since I'm not aware of any real benefit to the
end-user for using the new MivaVM v5 with an older v4.x store, I'm not sure
it would be cost effective for very many stores.

Darren Ehlers
OpenUI Consortium
<A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> Sebenza Lists
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:24 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>
>
> I dont think he is obligated to upgrade the OpenUI to "address" the
> issue. But it would be nice as a service to his thousands of
> customers.
>
> Scott
> SEBENZA.COM
> Miva Development
>
> Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus wrote:
>
> >My point wasn't that a new feature is a weakness. It's that
> when Empresa 5
> >kills previous apps and isn't downward compatible, that's a
> weakness. When
> >people upgraded from XP to XP2, and one of their programs
> broke, they blamed
> >Microsoft, not the program developers. It's not a fix to
> make software work
> >on newer platforms it wasn't designed for. The word "fix" is
> inappropriate
> >to the situation. The natural process would be for OpenUI 5
> to be released,
> >of course, but I won't get into that mess again. Maybe
> people/hosts would be
> >willing to pay Darren for an Empresa 5 compatible OpenUI 4
> upgrade? Or maybe
> >hosts will just wait until there's an Empresa version that
> is downward
> >compatible...
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [email protected]
> >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> >>Nicholas Vrtis
> >>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:48 AM
> >>Cc: [email protected]
> >>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> >>
> >>Well, I hope that Darren provides a fix, but I do agree that
> >>OpenUI is
> >>designed for 4x....
> >>
> >>But I will strongly disagree that subscript checking in 5x is a
> >>"weakness"... Subscripts out of range are "really bad
> things".. they
> >>introduce bugs that are difficult to find, unpredictable,
> >>cause problems
> >>to other innocent programs, and are the source of many
> hacking holes.
> >>
> >>Nick
> >>
> >>Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Wonder if Darren will fix what? OpenUI is designed to work
> >>>
> >>>
> >>with Empresa 4x
> >>
> >>
> >>>versions. 5x not being backwards compatible is not an OpenUI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>problem. Now,
> >>
> >>
> >>>maybe Darren will update OpenUI to accomodate weaknesses in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Empresa 5x, I
> >>
> >>
> >>>don't know, but it's certainly not a "fix."
> >>>
> >>>Chuck
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: [email protected]
> >>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> >>>>Sebenza Lists
> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:14 PM
> >>>>To: William Weiland
> >>>>Cc: [email protected]
> >>>>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> >>>>
> >>>>Yep... Just another fun task to overcome. I wonder if Darren
> >>>>will fix this.
> >>>>
> >>>>Scott
> >>>>SEBENZA.COM
> >>>>Miva Development
> >>>>
> >>>>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
> >>>><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>William Weiland wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Sebenza Lists wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks Bill.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>You are welcome. It must have something to do with a token
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>array and a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>0 or blank value in the index. You could get away with it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>in 4.x; but
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>5.x revealed the anomaly and left legacy code vulnerable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It took me an hour and completely uninstalling about 30
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>modules in our
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>test store until I found it was not module related at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Turned off
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the tokens and it worked. By then there was on one token
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>left in the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>whole store so it wasn't quite as ugly as Jason's example.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Scott
> >>>>>>SEBENZA.COM
> >>>>>>Miva Development
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
> >>>>>><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>William Weiland wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sebenza Lists wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Anyone have a store running smoothly on MivaVM
> >>>>>> 5.02 with OpenUI? I just
> >>>>>> upgraded a site and now get the following error
> >>>>>> from OpenUI.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fatal error in ouisub.mvc @ [00000496:0000002a]:
> >>>>>> Line 5000: Array index
> >>>>>> must be positive integer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the openui admin disable tokens. That may get you
> >>>>>> running again. It
> >>>>>> won't be pretty, but it should work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



--------------040602000602060305000004
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I dont think he is obligated to upgrade the OpenUI to "address" the
issue. But it would be nice as a service to his thousands of customers.

Scott
SEBENZA.COM
Miva Development

Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus wrote:

>My point wasn't that a new feature is a weakness. It's that when Empresa 5
>kills previous apps and isn't downward compatible, that's a weakness. When
>people upgraded from XP to XP2, and one of their programs broke, they blamed
>Microsoft, not the program developers. It's not a fix to make software work
>on newer platforms it wasn't designed for. The word "fix" is inappropriate
>to the situation. The natural process would be for OpenUI 5 to be released,
>of course, but I won't get into that mess again. Maybe people/hosts would be
>willing to pay Darren for an Empresa 5 compatible OpenUI 4 upgrade? Or maybe
>hosts will just wait until there's an Empresa version that is downward
>compatible...
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [email protected]
>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>Nicholas Vrtis
>>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:48 AM
>>Cc: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>>
>>Well, I hope that Darren provides a fix, but I do agree that
>>OpenUI is
>>designed for 4x....
>>
>>But I will strongly disagree that subscript checking in 5x is a
>>"weakness"... Subscripts out of range are "really bad things".. they
>>introduce bugs that are difficult to find, unpredictable,
>>cause problems
>>to other innocent programs, and are the source of many hacking holes.
>>
>>Nick
>>
>>Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Wonder if Darren will fix what? OpenUI is designed to work
>>>
>>>
>>with Empresa 4x
>>
>>
>>>versions. 5x not being backwards compatible is not an OpenUI
>>>
>>>
>>problem. Now,
>>
>>
>>>maybe Darren will update OpenUI to accomodate weaknesses in
>>>
>>>
>>Empresa 5x, I
>>
>>
>>>don't know, but it's certainly not a "fix."
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: [email protected]
>>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>>>Sebenza Lists
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:14 PM
>>>>To: William Weiland
>>>>Cc: [email protected]
>>>>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>>>>
>>>>Yep... Just another fun task to overcome. I wonder if Darren
>>>>will fix this.
>>>>
>>>>Scott
>>>>SEBENZA.COM
>>>>Miva Development
>>>>
>>>>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
>>>><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>William Weiland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sebenza Lists wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks Bill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>You are welcome. It must have something to do with a token
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>array and a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>0 or blank value in the index. You could get away with it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>in 4.x; but
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>5.x revealed the anomaly and left legacy code vulnerable.
>>>>>
>>>>>It took me an hour and completely uninstalling about 30
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>modules in our
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>test store until I found it was not module related at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Turned off
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the tokens and it worked. By then there was on one token
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>left in the
>>
>>
>>>>>whole store so it wasn't quite as ugly as Jason's example.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Scott
>>>>>>SEBENZA.COM
>>>>>>Miva Development
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
>>>>>><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>William Weiland wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sebenza Lists wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone have a store running smoothly on MivaVM
>>>>>> 5.02 with OpenUI? I just
>>>>>> upgraded a site and now get the following error
>>>>>> from OpenUI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fatal error in ouisub.mvc @ [00000496:0000002a]:
>>>>>> Line 5000: Array index
>>>>>> must be positive integer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the openui admin disable tokens. That may get you
>>>>>> running again. It
>>>>>> won't be pretty, but it should work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



I don't think they notified anyone.

David=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Gilligan [mailto:[email protected]]=20
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:46 AM
> To: David Hubbard; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>=20
> Unfortunatly - I got no notification, and having to download=20
> via the form everytime I want to check
> - well, that would be a pain...
>=20
> Bill
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Bill Gilligan
> Gilligan On-Line
> www.gilliganonline.com
> 850-233-8775 =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]=20
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> > David Hubbard
> > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:34 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> >=20
> > 5.02 is downloadable via the normal free end-user
> > registration procedure on Miva's site.
> >=20
> > David
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [email protected]=20
> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> > > Bill Gilligan
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:27 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> > >=20
> > > Unfortunatly,=20
> > > It seems all my logins/passwords have been deactivated EXCEPT=20
> > > for the V5 Beta site, and the Hosting
> > > site. And I can't find anything newer than 5.01 (all dated=20
> > > 4/05 or earlier).
> > >=20
> > > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > Bill Gilligan
> > > Gilligan On-Line
> > > www.gilliganonline.com
> > > 850-233-8775 =20
> > >=20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [email protected]=20
> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> > > > Sebenza Lists
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:13 PM
> > > > To: Bill Gilligan
> > > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> > > >=20
> > > > It was released today. Its on the general FTP site for=20
> > > > empressa. MySQL=20
> > > > addendum is on there too.
> > > >=20
> > > > Scott
> > > > SEBENZA.COM
> > > > Miva Development
> > > >=20
> > > > Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
> > > > <A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > Bill Gilligan wrote:
> > > >=20
> > > > >When did this get released - I was not notified....
> > > > >
> > > > >And is the MySQL avaialable?
> > > > >Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > =
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > >Bill Gilligan
> > > > >Gilligan On-Line
> > > > >www.gilliganonline.com
> > > > >850-233-8775 =20
> > > > >
> > > > > =20
> > > > >
> > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > >>From: [email protected]=20
> > > > >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> > > > Jen Ferraz
> > > > >>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:48 PM
> > > > >>To: [email protected]
> > > > >>Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> > > > >>
> > > > >>It's actually 5.0102, and that one is working
> > > > >>on at least some OUI stores.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Jen
> > > > >>Hostasaurus.Com
> > > > >>Miva Premier Hosting Partner
> > > > >>813.971.8772
> > > > >>[email protected]
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > >>From: [email protected]
> > > > >>[mailto:[email protected]] On=20
> > Behalf Of Jason
> > > > >>Henderson
> > > > >>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:46 PM
> > > > >>To: [email protected]
> > > > >>Cc: [email protected]
> > > > >>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>I do have 5.01 installed. Did release notes for 5.02 say=20
> > > > >>anything about
> > > > >>this problem?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Jason
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ouch!
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Scott
> > > > >>SEBENZA.COM
> > > > >>Miva Development
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
> > > > >><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jason Henderson wrote:=20
> > > > >>Not pretty? That is an understatement.
> > > > >><A HREF ="http://www.jmhonline.net/p-EXTERNAL.html">http://www.jmhonline.net/p-EXTERNAL.html</A>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Jason
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sebenza Lists wrote:
> > > > >> Anyone have a store running smoothly on MivaVM 5.02=20
> > > > with OpenUI? I
> > > > >>just
> > > > >>upgraded a site and now get the following error from OpenUI.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Fatal error in ouisub.mvc @ [00000496:0000002a]: Line 5000:=20
> > > > >>Array index
> > > > >>must be positive integer
> > > > >> In the openui admin disable tokens. That may get=20
> > > you running
> > > > >>again. It
> > > > >>won't be pretty, but it should work.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>--=20
> > > > >>Bill Weiland A2Z Emporium Plus=20
> > > > <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/store.mvc=20">http://www.emporiumplus.com/store.mvc=20</A>
> > > > >>Modules for eCommerce. Mail Mgr, Coupon, PayPal,=20
> > > > Froogle/Yahoo feeds=20
> > > > >>Rate This, Gift/Wish List, Wait List Mgr, EZ Batch,=20
> > > Shipping & more=20
> > > > >>Online Documentation <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/docs">http://www.emporiumplus.com/docs</A>
> > > > >>Question=20
> > > <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/mivamodule_wcw.mvc?Screen=3DSPTS=20">http://www.emporiumplus.com/mivamodule_wcw.mvc?Screen=3DSPTS=20</A>
> > > > >>|
> > > > >>
> > > > >>

MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



5.02 is downloadable via the normal free end-user
registration procedure on Miva's site.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]=20
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> Bill Gilligan
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:27 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
>=20
> Unfortunatly,=20
> It seems all my logins/passwords have been deactivated EXCEPT=20
> for the V5 Beta site, and the Hosting
> site. And I can't find anything newer than 5.01 (all dated=20
> 4/05 or earlier).
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Bill Gilligan
> Gilligan On-Line
> www.gilliganonline.com
> 850-233-8775 =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]=20
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> > Sebenza Lists
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:13 PM
> > To: Bill Gilligan
> > Cc: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> >=20
> > It was released today. Its on the general FTP site for=20
> > empressa. MySQL=20
> > addendum is on there too.
> >=20
> > Scott
> > SEBENZA.COM
> > Miva Development
> >=20
> > Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
> > <A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Bill Gilligan wrote:
> >=20
> > >When did this get released - I was not notified....
> > >
> > >And is the MySQL avaialable?
> > >Bill
> > >
> > >
> > =
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > >Bill Gilligan
> > >Gilligan On-Line
> > >www.gilliganonline.com
> > >850-233-8775 =20
> > >
> > > =20
> > >
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: [email protected]=20
> > >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> > Jen Ferraz
> > >>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:48 PM
> > >>To: [email protected]
> > >>Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> > >>
> > >>It's actually 5.0102, and that one is working
> > >>on at least some OUI stores.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Jen
> > >>Hostasaurus.Com
> > >>Miva Premier Hosting Partner
> > >>813.971.8772
> > >>[email protected]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: [email protected]
> > >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jason
> > >>Henderson
> > >>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:46 PM
> > >>To: [email protected]
> > >>Cc: [email protected]
> > >>Subject: Re: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>I do have 5.01 installed. Did release notes for 5.02 say=20
> > >>anything about
> > >>this problem?
> > >>
> > >>Jason
> > >>
> > >> Ouch!
> > >>
> > >>Scott
> > >>SEBENZA.COM
> > >>Miva Development
> > >>
> > >>Web: <A HREF ="http://www.sebenza.com">http://www.sebenza.com</A>
> > >><A HREF ="http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules">http://www.mvcool.com/SS - miva modules</A>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Jason Henderson wrote:=20
> > >>Not pretty? That is an understatement.
> > >><A HREF ="http://www.jmhonline.net/p-EXTERNAL.html">http://www.jmhonline.net/p-EXTERNAL.html</A>
> > >>
> > >>Jason
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sebenza Lists wrote:
> > >> Anyone have a store running smoothly on MivaVM 5.02=20
> > with OpenUI? I
> > >>just
> > >>upgraded a site and now get the following error from OpenUI.
> > >>
> > >>Fatal error in ouisub.mvc @ [00000496:0000002a]: Line 5000:=20
> > >>Array index
> > >>must be positive integer
> > >> In the openui admin disable tokens. That may get=20
> you running
> > >>again. It
> > >>won't be pretty, but it should work.
> > >>
> > >>--=20
> > >>Bill Weiland A2Z Emporium Plus=20
> > <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/store.mvc=20">http://www.emporiumplus.com/store.mvc=20</A>
> > >>Modules for eCommerce. Mail Mgr, Coupon, PayPal,=20
> > Froogle/Yahoo feeds=20
> > >>Rate This, Gift/Wish List, Wait List Mgr, EZ Batch,=20
> Shipping & more=20
> > >>Online Documentation <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/docs">http://www.emporiumplus.com/docs</A>
> > >>Question=20
> <A HREF ="http://www.emporiumplus.com/mivamodule_wcw.mvc?Screen=3DSPTS=20">http://www.emporiumplus.com/mivamodule_wcw.mvc?Screen=3DSPTS=20</A>
> > >>|
> > >>
> > >>