m5 old links

You'll have to ask Miva to release an SFL for Merchant 5.
I asked about it just earlier this morning as that's going
to be a major issue.

David=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]=20
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> John Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:22 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [m5u] m5 old links
>=20
> Group-
> I have a store that depends on the millions of links=20
> scattered all over the
> internet. For example, Google alone has over 90,000 pages=20
> indexed in my site
> these are Merchant style links, and SFL links as well as=20
> static pages and
> Viking coders additional screens pages with SFL link styles=20
> and Merchant
> links.
>=20
> When I migrate how can I ensure all of these links will still work?
>=20
> Cheers,
> John
>=20
>=20

m5 old links



John:

You can create new Pages with the same
codes as you have used in the Viking module.
The SFL links will be dependent on the availability
of a similar module for MM5.



Jen
Hostasaurus.Com
Miva Premier Hosting Partner
813.971.8772
[email protected]


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
Fischer
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [m5u] m5 old links


Group-
I have a store that depends on the millions of links scattered all over
the
internet. For example, Google alone has over 90,000 pages indexed in my
site
these are Merchant style links, and SFL links as well as static pages
and
Viking coders additional screens pages with SFL link styles and Merchant
links.

When I migrate how can I ensure all of these links will still work?

Cheers,
John

m5 old links



Because Copernicus was bought by Miva, so all Copernicus
modules are now Miva modules.

David=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]=20
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> John Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:30 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>=20
> Why wouldn't Copernicus release a sfl for m5?
>=20
>=20

m5 old links



It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will
eventually be releasing many things like that which store
owners consider mandatory.

David=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]=20
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=20
> John Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>=20
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>=20
> Anybody else in that boat?
>=20
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

m5 old links



I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release... Meaning:
I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set an
end to all the FUD and speculations.

Markus




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>
> Anybody else in that boat?
>
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>
>
>
>

m5 old links



They did say that although they will be starting to sell MM5 this week they
won't officially market it until may 16.

* Monday, May 2nd - Retail Launch of MM5 begins.
* Monday, May 16th - Miva to Launch MM5 Marketing


==================
David Perkowski
Duvys Web Development
(732) 905-0166


----- Original Message -----
From: "MvMarkus" <[email protected]>
To: "'David Hubbard'" <[email protected]>;
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


> I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release...
Meaning:
> I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
> some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set an
> end to all the FUD and speculations.
>
> Markus
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
> releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.
>
> David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
> > Fischer
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
> >
> > Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
> >
> > Anybody else in that boat?
> >
> > Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
> >
> >
> >
> >

m5 old links



I thought SFL's were built into Miva Merchant 5. I even recall seeing
them on the demo store...

Dan

On May 3, 2005, at 10:36 AM, David Hubbard wrote:

> It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will
> eventually be releasing many things like that which store
> owners consider mandatory.
>
> David

m5 old links



What questions did you have that weren't covered in the docs?

<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml">http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml</A>


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free
support lines for your convenience, great low cost packages to
choose from, Authorize.Net Direct retailer, need high-speed
connectivity well we have that too. Everything a business
needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like one too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:44 AM
To: 'David Hubbard'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release... Meaning:
I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set an
end to all the FUD and speculations.

Markus




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>
> Anybody else in that boat?
>
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>
>
>
>

m5 old links



Hi Wil,

Thanks for the links. The questions that I referred to regard mainly issues
that are only indirectly related to MM5:

(I'm just putting together some that I remember right out of the back of my
mind, others will certainly have many others, and probably more MM or module
specific questions. The purpose is not to start another public discussion,
but simply to get some straight and simple answers from official side).

1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at all)? Will there
be any costs involved?

2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our own commercial
license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer commercial license, or has Miva
Corp. an agreement with MySQL ABE in place that covers the end-users?

3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being accepted from
members of Miva's support plan, and in such case clear instructions how to
submit critical bugs (like security issues) if one is not a member of such a
support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see that Miva is still committed to
listen to those issues without requiring any upfront payments.

4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler on the server,
does Empresa handle the precompilation or are these interpreted scripts that
don't require real compilation?

5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing users of MM4 and
earlier or will it only be sold as a completely new product?


Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features, availability of payment
gateways) are probably covered by the docs and your webpages, or, since the
official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just learned today from
David), will be addressed at that occasion or by the module developers
themselves.

Thanks,

Markus






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wil Hatfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:27 PM
To: MvMarkus; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

What questions did you have that weren't covered in the docs?

<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml">http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml</A>


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free support lines
for your convenience, great low cost packages to choose from, Authorize.Net
Direct retailer, need high-speed connectivity well we have that too.
Everything a business needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like one
too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:44 AM
To: 'David Hubbard'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release... Meaning:
I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set an
end to all the FUD and speculations.

Markus




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>
> Anybody else in that boat?
>
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>
>
>
>

m5 old links



From: [email protected]=20
>=20
=20
>=20
> 1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at=20
> all)? Will there be any costs involved?

There is one, but I don't know if that's what Miva is
currently shipping people who buy it.

> 2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our=20
> own commercial license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer
> commercial license, or has Miva Corp. an agreement with
> MySQL ABE in place that covers the end-users?=20

If Miva has used code from MySQL in Empresa 5 then they
need to license it; I haven't seen a response on whether
that is the case though. Empresa 5 can talk to mysql
natively without client libraries on the system so it
definitely has someone's code internal to it that allows
communications with mysql servers. If the code draws on
MySQL's client code in any way, they need to commercially
license it.

On the server side, the way the license is worded, it
says "If you include the MySQL server with an application
that is not licensed under the GPL or GPL-compatible license,
you need a commercial license for the MySQL server." So
it's best to contact them to see how your intended use
would be interpreted.

=20
> 3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being=20
> accepted from members of Miva's support plan, and in such
> case clear instructions how to submit critical bugs (like
> security issues) if one is not a member of such a
> support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see that Miva is still=20
> committed to listen to those issues without requiring any
> upfront payments.=20

I don't agree with charging for bug reporting but at the
same time, knowing Miva's size and configuration, I think
they do need a way to have support staff chasing what
people would likely report as bugs all day, especially with
Merchant 5 since a bug could easily be introduced by a=20
customer modifying a template in some way. It could take
extensive time per bug report just to determine that the
issue is not a bug, and there is no way Miva could deal
with that. So having a policy that requires bugs be filtered
through hosts could work, and most who buy retail licenses
often buy support anyway so they'd be covered too. I think
this bug reporting fee will not be a major issue even though
it sounds ugly when reading it.
=20
> 4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler=20
> on the server, does Empresa handle the precompilation or are
> these interpreted scripts that don't require real compilation?=20

It recompiles them on the server internally, no extra
software other than mm5 and Empresa 5.

> 5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing=20
> users of MM4 and earlier or will it only be sold as a
> completely new product?

I believe Miva's upgrade license price is not changing from
what it currently is for upgrading to 4.24 from a prior major
release; $400 from mivacentral. We're offering our customers
lower cost options as I'm sure the other hosts are too.
=20
>=20
> Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features,=20
> availability of payment gateways) are probably covered
> by the docs and your webpages, or, since the
> official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just=20
> learned today from David), will be addressed at that
> occasion or by the module developers themselves.=20

Most of the default Miva modules are still present so
there is not a huge change there.

David

m5 old links



Well David already did a great job answering. My additions follow:

3. Now that Miva has some money and more proactive staff they have been
being very good about keeping on top of the bugs. They even hired in James
one of the best guys for the job who will be in charge of many things and I
believe making sure those bugs get fixed is one of them even if through
deligation. Here is a good resource... [email protected].

4. In laymans terms, when you modify the "pages" aka "screen layout" in MIVA
Merchant 5 Admin and click the Update button the "page" is compiled directly
into the MM5 software. No compiler required unless you are building your own
external applications or modules.

5. Special upgrade pricing will be available to existing customers. New
customers already get a new MM5 capable license key when they come to us, so
everyone is covered.

Thanks for your perspective and questions. I am going to put together an
"Inside MIVA Merchant 5" page shortly and am glad to have the input so I
know what kind of questions are out there.


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free
support lines for your convenience, great low cost packages to
choose from, Authorize.Net Direct retailer, need high-speed
connectivity well we have that too. Everything a business
needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like one too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:28 AM
To: 'Wil Hatfield'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


Hi Wil,

Thanks for the links. The questions that I referred to regard mainly issues
that are only indirectly related to MM5:

(I'm just putting together some that I remember right out of the back of my
mind, others will certainly have many others, and probably more MM or module
specific questions. The purpose is not to start another public discussion,
but simply to get some straight and simple answers from official side).

1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at all)? Will there
be any costs involved?

2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our own commercial
license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer commercial license, or has Miva
Corp. an agreement with MySQL ABE in place that covers the end-users?

3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being accepted from
members of Miva's support plan, and in such case clear instructions how to
submit critical bugs (like security issues) if one is not a member of such a
support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see that Miva is still committed to
listen to those issues without requiring any upfront payments.

4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler on the server,
does Empresa handle the precompilation or are these interpreted scripts that
don't require real compilation?

5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing users of MM4 and
earlier or will it only be sold as a completely new product?


Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features, availability of payment
gateways) are probably covered by the docs and your webpages, or, since the
official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just learned today from
David), will be addressed at that occasion or by the module developers
themselves.

Thanks,

Markus






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wil Hatfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:27 PM
To: MvMarkus; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

What questions did you have that weren't covered in the docs?

<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml">http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml</A>


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free support lines
for your convenience, great low cost packages to choose from, Authorize.Net
Direct retailer, need high-speed connectivity well we have that too.
Everything a business needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like one
too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:44 AM
To: 'David Hubbard'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release... Meaning:
I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set an
end to all the FUD and speculations.

Markus




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>
> Anybody else in that boat?
>
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>
>
>
>

m5 old links



Dear Wil, David,

Thanks a lot for these answers, they're very helpful.

A last word to the bug reports: As you suggested, Wil, I certainly won't
hesitate to send a report to bugs@... if I ever detect one, but of course
I'd like to know that they are taken into consideration, especially since
with v5 there are new potential vulernabilities through SQL injection hacks
that we have never faced before. Considering that most major problems in
PHP/ASP scripts originate right there (and lack of input sanitation, which
then often allows for a SQL hack), I believe that an aggressive and "open"
stance from Miva's side to address those issues is the only way
Miva/Merchant's database layer can remain as secure as we knew it for years.


For that reason, the recent posting about "paying to report bugs" troubled
me quite a bit. But again, I am really only talking about real bugs and
vulnerabilities; not templating/usability issues, and I agree with David
that there will be cases where it's not going to be clear how to interpret a
reported problem.

So I still have my hopes up that the people in San Diego will not ignore a
message that indicates some nasty SQL injection through a cookie... I
certainly don't want to find the public posting of an exploit of such
vulernability during my weekly readings of @RISK (SANS Institute).

markus






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wil Hatfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 3:23 PM
To: MvMarkus; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

Well David already did a great job answering. My additions follow:

3. Now that Miva has some money and more proactive staff they have been
being very good about keeping on top of the bugs. They even hired in James
one of the best guys for the job who will be in charge of many things and I
believe making sure those bugs get fixed is one of them even if through
deligation. Here is a good resource... [email protected].

4. In laymans terms, when you modify the "pages" aka "screen layout" in MIVA
Merchant 5 Admin and click the Update button the "page" is compiled directly
into the MM5 software. No compiler required unless you are building your own
external applications or modules.

5. Special upgrade pricing will be available to existing customers. New
customers already get a new MM5 capable license key when they come to us, so
everyone is covered.

Thanks for your perspective and questions. I am going to put together an
"Inside MIVA Merchant 5" page shortly and am glad to have the input so I
know what kind of questions are out there.


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free support lines
for your convenience, great low cost packages to choose from, Authorize.Net
Direct retailer, need high-speed connectivity well we have that too.
Everything a business needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like one
too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:28 AM
To: 'Wil Hatfield'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


Hi Wil,

Thanks for the links. The questions that I referred to regard mainly issues
that are only indirectly related to MM5:

(I'm just putting together some that I remember right out of the back of my
mind, others will certainly have many others, and probably more MM or module
specific questions. The purpose is not to start another public discussion,
but simply to get some straight and simple answers from official side).

1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at all)? Will there
be any costs involved?

2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our own commercial
license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer commercial license, or has Miva
Corp. an agreement with MySQL ABE in place that covers the end-users?

3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being accepted from
members of Miva's support plan, and in such case clear instructions how to
submit critical bugs (like security issues) if one is not a member of such a
support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see that Miva is still committed to
listen to those issues without requiring any upfront payments.

4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler on the server,
does Empresa handle the precompilation or are these interpreted scripts that
don't require real compilation?

5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing users of MM4 and
earlier or will it only be sold as a completely new product?


Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features, availability of payment
gateways) are probably covered by the docs and your webpages, or, since the
official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just learned today from
David), will be addressed at that occasion or by the module developers
themselves.

Thanks,

Markus






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wil Hatfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:27 PM
To: MvMarkus; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

What questions did you have that weren't covered in the docs?

<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml">http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml</A>


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free support lines
for your convenience, great low cost packages to choose from, Authorize.Net
Direct retailer, need high-speed connectivity well we have that too.
Everything a business needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like one
too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:44 AM
To: 'David Hubbard'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release... Meaning:
I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set an
end to all the FUD and speculations.

Markus




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>
> Anybody else in that boat?
>
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>
>
>
>

m5 old links



Whether MIVA may or may not need a license is something we
naturally can't KNOW, but I would assume that they crossed all
the t's and dotted all i's before releasing their stuff.

As for the end user of MIVA Merchant this is a complete non-issue
because MySQL makes it clear that: "Free use for those who never
copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute the
MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering
your application, irrespective of whether your application is
under GPL license or not."

So if you are an end user of MIVA Merchant there is no license
needed to choose the MySQL option over the Mivasql option.

You have to remember that the GPL is more about source code
modification access than use access. They want to make sure
people don't take the MySQL source code and incorporate it into
an application if that application isn't a GPL application.

End user are not doping anything at all even vaguely like that,
all they are doing is using it.

Now, if SuperServers.com offers to sell a server to you that
includes a fancy control panel they wrote that integrates with
MySQL built in then they need to read carefully the GPL and see
if they need a commercial license before they start selling that
server, or they need to make sure the release all their source
code and license everything under GPL

Two totally different types of things.

- Jeff Huber
President, 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


From: [email protected]=20
>=20
=20
>=20
> 1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at=20
> all)? Will there be any costs involved?

There is one, but I don't know if that's what Miva is
currently shipping people who buy it.

> 2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our=20
> own commercial license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer
> commercial license, or has Miva Corp. an agreement with
> MySQL ABE in place that covers the end-users?=20

If Miva has used code from MySQL in Empresa 5 then they
need to license it; I haven't seen a response on whether
that is the case though. Empresa 5 can talk to mysql
natively without client libraries on the system so it
definitely has someone's code internal to it that allows
communications with mysql servers. If the code draws on
MySQL's client code in any way, they need to commercially
license it.

On the server side, the way the license is worded, it
says "If you include the MySQL server with an application
that is not licensed under the GPL or GPL-compatible license,
you need a commercial license for the MySQL server." So
it's best to contact them to see how your intended use
would be interpreted.

=20
> 3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being=20
> accepted from members of Miva's support plan, and in such
> case clear instructions how to submit critical bugs (like
> security issues) if one is not a member of such a
> support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see that Miva is still=20
> committed to listen to those issues without requiring any
> upfront payments.=20

I don't agree with charging for bug reporting but at the
same time, knowing Miva's size and configuration, I think
they do need a way to have support staff chasing what
people would likely report as bugs all day, especially with
Merchant 5 since a bug could easily be introduced by a=20
customer modifying a template in some way. It could take
extensive time per bug report just to determine that the
issue is not a bug, and there is no way Miva could deal
with that. So having a policy that requires bugs be filtered
through hosts could work, and most who buy retail licenses
often buy support anyway so they'd be covered too. I think
this bug reporting fee will not be a major issue even though
it sounds ugly when reading it.
=20
> 4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler=20
> on the server, does Empresa handle the precompilation or are
> these interpreted scripts that don't require real compilation?=20

It recompiles them on the server internally, no extra
software other than mm5 and Empresa 5.

> 5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing=20
> users of MM4 and earlier or will it only be sold as a
> completely new product?

I believe Miva's upgrade license price is not changing from
what it currently is for upgrading to 4.24 from a prior major
release; $400 from mivacentral. We're offering our customers
lower cost options as I'm sure the other hosts are too.
=20
>=20
> Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features,=20
> availability of payment gateways) are probably covered
> by the docs and your webpages, or, since the
> official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just=20
> learned today from David), will be addressed at that
> occasion or by the module developers themselves.=20

Most of the default Miva modules are still present so
there is not a huge change there.

David

m5 old links



Hi Jeff,

I hate to contradict you, but the MySQL-terms when a commercial license is
required are quite clear:

<A HREF ="http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/commercial-license.html">http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/commercial-license.html</A>

Among others, this states that a commercial license is required for "Selling
software that requires customers to install MySQL themselves on their own
machines."

or

"If you develop and distribute a commercial application and as part of
utilizing your application, the end-user must download a copy of MySQL; for
each derivative work, you (or, in some cases, your end-user) need a
commercial license for the MySQL server and/or MySQL client libraries."



The point is that neither you, nor I, nor anybody else except Miva and MySQL
ABE can clearly answer this question, and this is the EXACTLY reason why I
posted it as "questions to be answered by Miva Corp". I think it is indeed
very important (and only fair) to know exactly who is supposed to get such
license - the user, the ISP, Miva Corp? It might very well be possible (yet
quite unlikely) that they have some kind of agreement in place that releaves
endusers or ISPs from a commercial license (NuSphere for example bought
distribution rights and paid 3/4 of a million dollars), and there are also
special provisions for PHP apps or ISPs, and some operating systems might
even have a commercial MySQL in their package.

I'm quite certain that Miva's position is "if you want to use MySQL, it's
your responsibility to be in compliance with any third party software" -
which is okay, I just want to know to have some clarity on this issue.

markus

If I misunderstood what you were trying to say than I apologize.





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeff Huber -
Listmail
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 4:39 PM
To: 'David Hubbard'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

Whether MIVA may or may not need a license is something we naturally can't
KNOW, but I would assume that they crossed all the t's and dotted all i's
before releasing their stuff.

As for the end user of MIVA Merchant this is a complete non-issue because
MySQL makes it clear that: "Free use for those who never copy, modify or
distribute. As long as you never distribute the MySQL Software in any way,
you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of
whether your application is under GPL license or not."

So if you are an end user of MIVA Merchant there is no license needed to
choose the MySQL option over the Mivasql option.

You have to remember that the GPL is more about source code modification
access than use access. They want to make sure people don't take the MySQL
source code and incorporate it into an application if that application isn't
a GPL application.

End user are not doping anything at all even vaguely like that, all they are
doing is using it.

Now, if SuperServers.com offers to sell a server to you that includes a
fancy control panel they wrote that integrates with MySQL built in then they
need to read carefully the GPL and see if they need a commercial license
before they start selling that server, or they need to make sure the release
all their source code and license everything under GPL

Two totally different types of things.

- Jeff Huber
President, 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


From: [email protected]
>

>
> 1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at all)? Will
> there be any costs involved?

There is one, but I don't know if that's what Miva is currently shipping
people who buy it.

> 2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our own
> commercial license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer commercial license,
> or has Miva Corp. an agreement with MySQL ABE in place that covers the
> end-users?

If Miva has used code from MySQL in Empresa 5 then they need to license it;
I haven't seen a response on whether that is the case though. Empresa 5 can
talk to mysql natively without client libraries on the system so it
definitely has someone's code internal to it that allows communications with
mysql servers. If the code draws on MySQL's client code in any way, they
need to commercially license it.

On the server side, the way the license is worded, it says "If you include
the MySQL server with an application that is not licensed under the GPL or
GPL-compatible license, you need a commercial license for the MySQL server."
So it's best to contact them to see how your intended use would be
interpreted.


> 3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being accepted
> from members of Miva's support plan, and in such case clear
> instructions how to submit critical bugs (like security issues) if one
> is not a member of such a support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see
> that Miva is still committed to listen to those issues without
> requiring any upfront payments.

I don't agree with charging for bug reporting but at the same time, knowing
Miva's size and configuration, I think they do need a way to have support
staff chasing what people would likely report as bugs all day, especially
with Merchant 5 since a bug could easily be introduced by a customer
modifying a template in some way. It could take extensive time per bug
report just to determine that the issue is not a bug, and there is no way
Miva could deal with that. So having a policy that requires bugs be
filtered through hosts could work, and most who buy retail licenses often
buy support anyway so they'd be covered too. I think this bug reporting fee
will not be a major issue even though it sounds ugly when reading it.

> 4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler on the
> server, does Empresa handle the precompilation or are these
> interpreted scripts that don't require real compilation?

It recompiles them on the server internally, no extra software other than
mm5 and Empresa 5.

> 5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing users of MM4
> and earlier or will it only be sold as a completely new product?

I believe Miva's upgrade license price is not changing from what it
currently is for upgrading to 4.24 from a prior major release; $400 from
mivacentral. We're offering our customers lower cost options as I'm sure
the other hosts are too.

>
> Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features, availability of
> payment gateways) are probably covered by the docs and your webpages,
> or, since the official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just
> learned today from David), will be addressed at that occasion or by
> the module developers themselves.

Most of the default Miva modules are still present so there is not a huge
change there.

David

m5 old links



Please be assured that any serious security reports or bugs will
definitely be looked at.

The bug report policy I mentioned in the MM4 users list generally refers
to customers calling us up and reporting a bug that, most of the time,
turns out to be a configuration error. To protect our support resources
and keep ticket handling times low, we need to request these customers
be a Miva Service Club member to further investigate. We also do make
exceptions depending on the situation.

Please remember that we do monitor these groups every day, and will be
looking for bug reports in here that many people may be experiencing.

Jimmy=20
=20
Miva Corporation
A FindWhat.com, Inc. Company
NASDAQ: FWHT

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:09 PM
To: 'Wil Hatfield'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

Dear Wil, David,

Thanks a lot for these answers, they're very helpful.=20

A last word to the bug reports: As you suggested, Wil, I certainly won't
hesitate to send a report to bugs@... if I ever detect one, but of
course
I'd like to know that they are taken into consideration, especially
since
with v5 there are new potential vulernabilities through SQL injection
hacks
that we have never faced before. Considering that most major problems in
PHP/ASP scripts originate right there (and lack of input sanitation,
which
then often allows for a SQL hack), I believe that an aggressive and
"open"
stance from Miva's side to address those issues is the only way
Miva/Merchant's database layer can remain as secure as we knew it for
years.


For that reason, the recent posting about "paying to report bugs"
troubled
me quite a bit. But again, I am really only talking about real bugs and
vulnerabilities; not templating/usability issues, and I agree with David
that there will be cases where it's not going to be clear how to
interpret a
reported problem.=20

So I still have my hopes up that the people in San Diego will not ignore
a
message that indicates some nasty SQL injection through a cookie... I
certainly don't want to find the public posting of an exploit of such
vulernability during my weekly readings of @RISK (SANS Institute).

markus


=20



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wil
Hatfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 3:23 PM
To: MvMarkus; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

Well David already did a great job answering. My additions follow:

3. Now that Miva has some money and more proactive staff they have been
being very good about keeping on top of the bugs. They even hired in
James
one of the best guys for the job who will be in charge of many things
and I
believe making sure those bugs get fixed is one of them even if through
deligation. Here is a good resource... [email protected].

4. In laymans terms, when you modify the "pages" aka "screen layout" in
MIVA
Merchant 5 Admin and click the Update button the "page" is compiled
directly
into the MM5 software. No compiler required unless you are building your
own
external applications or modules.

5. Special upgrade pricing will be available to existing customers. New
customers already get a new MM5 capable license key when they come to
us, so
everyone is covered.

Thanks for your perspective and questions. I am going to put together an
"Inside MIVA Merchant 5" page shortly and am glad to have the input so I
know what kind of questions are out there.


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free support
lines
for your convenience, great low cost packages to choose from,
Authorize.Net
Direct retailer, need high-speed connectivity well we have that too.
Everything a business needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like
one
too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:28 AM
To: 'Wil Hatfield'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


Hi Wil,

Thanks for the links. The questions that I referred to regard mainly
issues
that are only indirectly related to MM5:

(I'm just putting together some that I remember right out of the back of
my
mind, others will certainly have many others, and probably more MM or
module
specific questions. The purpose is not to start another public
discussion,
but simply to get some straight and simple answers from official side).

1.) Compiler: When will a new compiler be released (if at all)? Will
there
be any costs involved?

2.) MM5/MySQL licensing issues: Do we need to purchase our own
commercial
license of MySQL, do ISPs have to offer commercial license, or has Miva
Corp. an agreement with MySQL ABE in place that covers the end-users?

3.) A statement (confirmation) reg. bug reports only being accepted from
members of Miva's support plan, and in such case clear instructions how
to
submit critical bugs (like security issues) if one is not a member of
such a
support plan. Obviously, I'd like to see that Miva is still committed to
listen to those issues without requiring any upfront payments.

4.) Does the new template mechanism in MM5 require a compiler on the
server,
does Empresa handle the precompilation or are these interpreted scripts
that
don't require real compilation?

5.) Will there be an upgrade pricing for MM5 for existing users of MM4
and
earlier or will it only be sold as a completely new product?


Most MM5 related questions (changes, new features, availability of
payment
gateways) are probably covered by the docs and your webpages, or, since
the
official release date is only on May 16 ( which I just learned today
from
David), will be addressed at that occasion or by the module developers
themselves.

Thanks,

Markus






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wil
Hatfield
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 1:27 PM
To: MvMarkus; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

What questions did you have that weren't covered in the docs?

<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml">http://www.hyperconx.com/software/miva-merchant-5.phtml</A>


Wil Hatfield
HyperConX Customer Care

HyperConX International - <A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com">http://www.hyperconx.com</A>
1.800.894.3613 - Toll Free in the US and Canada

Check out the all new Miva Pages:
<A HREF ="http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/">http://www.hyperconx.com/miva/</A>

Premium e-commerce hosting, 24/7 technical support, toll free support
lines
for your convenience, great low cost packages to choose from,
Authorize.Net
Direct retailer, need high-speed connectivity well we have that too.
Everything a business needs to succeed. Host with the Pros and sell like
one
too!




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of MvMarkus
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:44 AM
To: 'David Hubbard'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links


I still have the hope that yesterday wasn't the official release...
Meaning:
I hope they'd at least make a public and official annoucement and answer
some of the questions that were asked here over the past weeks, to set
an
end to all the FUD and speculations.

Markus




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David
Hubbard
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links

It was just released yesterday, I would suspect they will eventually be
releasing many things like that which store owners consider mandatory.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John=20
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [m5u] m5 old links
>
> Well I can't migrate to Miva till a M5 SFL is released
>
> Anybody else in that boat?
>
> Is Miva going to ignore us on this issue?
>
>
>
>