Mivascript community
Bottom line...he who has more money wins in lawsuits almost 90% of the time. It doesn't
matter that its right, but unless Claudiu wants to expend hundreds to thousands of
dollars, then if Miva says No, it means no!
-Bruce
......................................
PHOSPHOR Media
Featuring: StoreMan - A smarter way to manage Miva Merchant(tm) Store Content.
Download a hassle-free demo today
<A HREF ="http://www.phosphormedia.com/go.mv?ID=listsm">http://www.phosphormedia.com/go.mv?ID=listsm</A>
......................................
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of Ben Walsh
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:36 PM
> To: 'Tom'; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
>
>
> BTW Using the article you referenced, I could find quite a bit supporting my
> point actually... for example:
>
> "The above classification scheme is applicable under the modern ACPA,
> particularly in cases where priority in use is unclear or a purely
> descriptive term is involved (see case law below). Furthermore, this very
> classification scheme provides a "fair use" defense in the limited context
> where a junior user uses a mark in its descriptive sense only as opposed to
> trading on a senior user's established secondary meaning or where there is a
> non-competing business or totally different product line involved, i.e.
> Delta Airlines as opposed to Delta Faucets. Use of a mark as parody when it
> appears in a traditional medium of protected non-commercial speech is also
> fair use, i.e. "walmartsucks.com"."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:06 PM
> To: Ben Walsh; 'Bill Gilligan'; 'Jonathan - Driftwood'; 'Claudiu Bischoff';
> [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
>
> An interesting article for you to read:
> http://gsulaw.gsu.edu/lawand/papers/su01/hinnant_meek/
>
> HTH
> Tom
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > Behalf Of Ben Walsh
> > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:24 PM
> > To: 'Bill Gilligan'; 'Jonathan - Driftwood'; 'Claudiu Bischoff';
> > [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
> >
> >
> > I'm not aware that owning a domain name containing another's trademark is
> a
> > trademark infringement. Did something happen while I was sleeping?
> >
> > Making money off someone else's trademark obviously constitutes a
> violation,
> > but a forum or discussion site? You've got to be kidding. That's got to be
> > kosher. For instance if I opened up a site called walmartreview.biz
> > (reviewing Walmart products) they wouldn't have a prayer of winning a
> > trademark suit against me.
> >
> > You're fine using Mivascript.org Claudiu. If you get sued I'll pay the
> legal
> > fees =) (as long as you don't compete with them or sell anything on it).
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> > Of Bill Gilligan
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:54 PM
> > To: Jonathan - Driftwood; Claudiu Bischoff; [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
> >
> > I used to own www.mivacentral.com (now www.mvcentral.com)
> > I released it at the request of Joe Austin.
> > They are now using it.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan - Driftwood
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:43 AM
> > To: Claudiu Bischoff; [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [meu] Mivascript community
> >
> >
> > Might want to use real caution with that domain name.
> >
> > I owned a selection of names which were aimed at Miva-based issues. I
> > registered them many, many years ago when they first switched from
> > HTMLScript to Miva Script. I also sent an email to the then CEO, Joe
> > Austin and told him I had the names and would be happy to give them to
> Miva
> > Corp if the issue ever arose. As I explained to Joe, I registered the
> > names more to help and/or protect Miva Corp than any intention of using
> > them actively. One's like "mivamerchant.net" and "miva-merchant.org" and
> > "mivatreats.com" I did not want to see used for profit -- I wanted to use
> > them for community building. At the time I did NOT own a hosting company
> > nor was making any portion of my income from Miva Corp products.
> >
> > The names were NEVER used - and half of them simply directed traffic to
> > miva.com! The whole point was not to use them to make money. Like my
> > 'Miva Masochists Guild' site. Hell, when I first opened the MMG one Miva
> > employee wrote to say they were going to sue me for using their name that
> > way. It was quashed when Joe and other Miva employees went and simply
> > looked at the damn thing and found it humorous; and because they had known
> > me for years and knew well my intentions and perspectives.
> >
> > Then last year about this time I was contacted rather rudely and abruptly
> > by Miva Corp and they demanded I immediately fork over the name(s)
> > immediately because they said I was violating their trademark.
> >
> > Why they attacked me and not any of the other people using Miva-oriented
> > domain names to actually make money - I do not know. None of my domain
> > names was EVER used to generate revenue in any fashion. I guess if you
> use
> > the domain name to make money Miva Corp lets it ride or something. Ahem.
> >
> > So Miva Corp's response to using domain names with any form of their name
> > in the domain name is inconsistent at best. Apparently they will permit
> > some people to use these names to make money - but very tangibly not for
> > community building efforts. As I reflected to a Miva Corp officer last
> > year, it was unfortunate that they decided to single-out 'community'
> > efforts for negative action. The base reaction I got felt like I was
> being
> > told "you do not understand the world of business". A real down-the-nose
> > sort of reaction; from someone who has worked in the Miva world far less
> > than half the number of years that I have.
> >
> > Your intentions are noble and - to me - a highly valuable resource. But
> if
> > you use it for non-profit education or community building it will likely
> be
> > seen by them as a threat for some reason. The previous CEO Joe Austin had
> > a very realistic and honorable perspective on this matter. But it ain't
> > Joe's company any more and the new owners have the right to do as they
> darn
> > well please, and do not owe any explanation to the users or vendors or
> > their products.
> >
> > Go figure...
> >
> > Jonathan
> > Driftwood Network Services
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:25 PM 1/11/2005, Claudiu Bischoff wrote:
> > >Hello everybody...
> > >
> > > I have to tell all that I'm in a final phase of a mivascript community
> > web
> > >site project. It's an old dream that I had about that community so in my
> > >spare time I developed the web-site.
> > > I'll describe the site here.. because I really need your opinion
> > >
> > > First of all is a non-commercial website.. so I don't expect to make
> > money
> > >with it. It's all for the community and I built it all alone because
> there
> > >were some failed attempts to build such a project .. and the main problem
> > >was the time of the team, etc.. So I think that was a good choice to make
> > it
> > >all alone.
> > >
> > > The concept was to make a public database with all the mivascript
> > >developers. Every developer can create freely an account (where he must
> > >indicate his mivascripting level.. and some other information). He can
> fill
> > >an online CV (only professional information of course) and even publish
> his
> > >photo. There is a blog feature on every developer account (that the
> > >developer can administrate too). The developer can also present his
> > >mivascript work (there is a special menu to do that) and link to the
> > >web-sites he made.
> > > Another feature is the Resources side of the site. My idea was to let
> > >developers publish their scripts (compiled or uncompiled) so everybody
> can
> > >use it. There is a special menu for add/modify/delete scripts in the
> > >developer account. There is a blog also for every published script. A
> > >tutorial section is on the way (but here I need some help from you..) so
> > >every developer can add tutorials.
> > > There is an Online Projects feature also. The idea was to publish open
> > >source projects online. I think there are some developers that have
> already
> > >some open source mivascript projects and this could be a good place to
> > >publish and promote them.
> > > I want to make a mivascript functions database with a search engine. It
> > >could be a good idea to build it in the same way as php.net. What I
> > >appreciate out there are the examples for every function. So my idea was
> to
> > >let developers "blog" every function with examples.
> > > We have also a forum.. but I'm searching a way to make it work by
> e-mail
> > >(like this one).. perhaps someone have already this functionality.. and
> > want
> > >to participate with it.. Else I'll be forced to make it all alone :)
> > >
> > > The next step will be to make a small "rent a coder" platform but
> that's
> > >just an idea for the moment.(of course for free for the both sides
> projects
> > >ppl and coders)
> > >
> > > So I really need help to the following points:
> > >
> > > 1. Language. I'm not English.. so I need help "translating" this site.
> > > 2. Domain name. I have mivascript.org .. and I want to use it. I
> already
> > >sent some e-mails to the Miva Corporation to ask permission to use it..
> but
> > >no answer. So I don't know if I have the right to use it or not (once
> again
> > >is for the mivascript community and it is not a commercial website). I
> > >really don't want to change the domain name because I think it is very
> > >appropriate for those who are searching mivascript resources... What do
> you
> > >think?
> > > 3. The tutorial side of the website. I would like to know which would
> the
> > >best way to make this module (back-office functionality). There are some
> > >developers on the list that already done some tutorials.. so I think they
> > >can give examples about the easiest way to make it (I already integrated
> > >htmlarea editor to publish text.. so I think this can make it easier to
> > >create tutorials)
> > > 4. The Online Projects side. I don't think that is a good idea to copy
> > >sourceforge.net because it's too complicated. If someone can give ideas
> > >about how would be better to make it.. would be great.
> > > 5. Do you think it's a non-sense to make all those efforts ?
> > > 6. Do you believe that will be a dead-born project ? :)
> > >
> > > There is no preview online for the moment because is not finished. But
> > I'll
> > >be able to show something very soon. That why I wanted your opinion.. I
> > want
> > >to give everybody the possibility to participate with ideas.
> > >
> > > PS: All the website is developed in mivascript and it's a modular
> > system...
> > >so new functionality are very easy to implement. If you have other ideas
> > >just let me know..
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your efforts understanding my English.. Sorry for
> that.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Claudiu Bischoff
> > >
> > >
Bottom line...he who has more money wins in lawsuits almost 90% of the time. It doesn't
matter that its right, but unless Claudiu wants to expend hundreds to thousands of
dollars, then if Miva says No, it means no!
-Bruce
......................................
PHOSPHOR Media
Featuring: StoreMan - A smarter way to manage Miva Merchant(tm) Store Content.
Download a hassle-free demo today
<A HREF ="http://www.phosphormedia.com/go.mv?ID=listsm">http://www.phosphormedia.com/go.mv?ID=listsm</A>
......................................
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of Ben Walsh
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:36 PM
> To: 'Tom'; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
>
>
> BTW Using the article you referenced, I could find quite a bit supporting my
> point actually... for example:
>
> "The above classification scheme is applicable under the modern ACPA,
> particularly in cases where priority in use is unclear or a purely
> descriptive term is involved (see case law below). Furthermore, this very
> classification scheme provides a "fair use" defense in the limited context
> where a junior user uses a mark in its descriptive sense only as opposed to
> trading on a senior user's established secondary meaning or where there is a
> non-competing business or totally different product line involved, i.e.
> Delta Airlines as opposed to Delta Faucets. Use of a mark as parody when it
> appears in a traditional medium of protected non-commercial speech is also
> fair use, i.e. "walmartsucks.com"."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:06 PM
> To: Ben Walsh; 'Bill Gilligan'; 'Jonathan - Driftwood'; 'Claudiu Bischoff';
> [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
>
> An interesting article for you to read:
> http://gsulaw.gsu.edu/lawand/papers/su01/hinnant_meek/
>
> HTH
> Tom
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > Behalf Of Ben Walsh
> > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:24 PM
> > To: 'Bill Gilligan'; 'Jonathan - Driftwood'; 'Claudiu Bischoff';
> > [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
> >
> >
> > I'm not aware that owning a domain name containing another's trademark is
> a
> > trademark infringement. Did something happen while I was sleeping?
> >
> > Making money off someone else's trademark obviously constitutes a
> violation,
> > but a forum or discussion site? You've got to be kidding. That's got to be
> > kosher. For instance if I opened up a site called walmartreview.biz
> > (reviewing Walmart products) they wouldn't have a prayer of winning a
> > trademark suit against me.
> >
> > You're fine using Mivascript.org Claudiu. If you get sued I'll pay the
> legal
> > fees =) (as long as you don't compete with them or sell anything on it).
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> > Of Bill Gilligan
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:54 PM
> > To: Jonathan - Driftwood; Claudiu Bischoff; [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [meu] Mivascript community
> >
> > I used to own www.mivacentral.com (now www.mvcentral.com)
> > I released it at the request of Joe Austin.
> > They are now using it.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan - Driftwood
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:43 AM
> > To: Claudiu Bischoff; [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [meu] Mivascript community
> >
> >
> > Might want to use real caution with that domain name.
> >
> > I owned a selection of names which were aimed at Miva-based issues. I
> > registered them many, many years ago when they first switched from
> > HTMLScript to Miva Script. I also sent an email to the then CEO, Joe
> > Austin and told him I had the names and would be happy to give them to
> Miva
> > Corp if the issue ever arose. As I explained to Joe, I registered the
> > names more to help and/or protect Miva Corp than any intention of using
> > them actively. One's like "mivamerchant.net" and "miva-merchant.org" and
> > "mivatreats.com" I did not want to see used for profit -- I wanted to use
> > them for community building. At the time I did NOT own a hosting company
> > nor was making any portion of my income from Miva Corp products.
> >
> > The names were NEVER used - and half of them simply directed traffic to
> > miva.com! The whole point was not to use them to make money. Like my
> > 'Miva Masochists Guild' site. Hell, when I first opened the MMG one Miva
> > employee wrote to say they were going to sue me for using their name that
> > way. It was quashed when Joe and other Miva employees went and simply
> > looked at the damn thing and found it humorous; and because they had known
> > me for years and knew well my intentions and perspectives.
> >
> > Then last year about this time I was contacted rather rudely and abruptly
> > by Miva Corp and they demanded I immediately fork over the name(s)
> > immediately because they said I was violating their trademark.
> >
> > Why they attacked me and not any of the other people using Miva-oriented
> > domain names to actually make money - I do not know. None of my domain
> > names was EVER used to generate revenue in any fashion. I guess if you
> use
> > the domain name to make money Miva Corp lets it ride or something. Ahem.
> >
> > So Miva Corp's response to using domain names with any form of their name
> > in the domain name is inconsistent at best. Apparently they will permit
> > some people to use these names to make money - but very tangibly not for
> > community building efforts. As I reflected to a Miva Corp officer last
> > year, it was unfortunate that they decided to single-out 'community'
> > efforts for negative action. The base reaction I got felt like I was
> being
> > told "you do not understand the world of business". A real down-the-nose
> > sort of reaction; from someone who has worked in the Miva world far less
> > than half the number of years that I have.
> >
> > Your intentions are noble and - to me - a highly valuable resource. But
> if
> > you use it for non-profit education or community building it will likely
> be
> > seen by them as a threat for some reason. The previous CEO Joe Austin had
> > a very realistic and honorable perspective on this matter. But it ain't
> > Joe's company any more and the new owners have the right to do as they
> darn
> > well please, and do not owe any explanation to the users or vendors or
> > their products.
> >
> > Go figure...
> >
> > Jonathan
> > Driftwood Network Services
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:25 PM 1/11/2005, Claudiu Bischoff wrote:
> > >Hello everybody...
> > >
> > > I have to tell all that I'm in a final phase of a mivascript community
> > web
> > >site project. It's an old dream that I had about that community so in my
> > >spare time I developed the web-site.
> > > I'll describe the site here.. because I really need your opinion
> > >
> > > First of all is a non-commercial website.. so I don't expect to make
> > money
> > >with it. It's all for the community and I built it all alone because
> there
> > >were some failed attempts to build such a project .. and the main problem
> > >was the time of the team, etc.. So I think that was a good choice to make
> > it
> > >all alone.
> > >
> > > The concept was to make a public database with all the mivascript
> > >developers. Every developer can create freely an account (where he must
> > >indicate his mivascripting level.. and some other information). He can
> fill
> > >an online CV (only professional information of course) and even publish
> his
> > >photo. There is a blog feature on every developer account (that the
> > >developer can administrate too). The developer can also present his
> > >mivascript work (there is a special menu to do that) and link to the
> > >web-sites he made.
> > > Another feature is the Resources side of the site. My idea was to let
> > >developers publish their scripts (compiled or uncompiled) so everybody
> can
> > >use it. There is a special menu for add/modify/delete scripts in the
> > >developer account. There is a blog also for every published script. A
> > >tutorial section is on the way (but here I need some help from you..) so
> > >every developer can add tutorials.
> > > There is an Online Projects feature also. The idea was to publish open
> > >source projects online. I think there are some developers that have
> already
> > >some open source mivascript projects and this could be a good place to
> > >publish and promote them.
> > > I want to make a mivascript functions database with a search engine. It
> > >could be a good idea to build it in the same way as php.net. What I
> > >appreciate out there are the examples for every function. So my idea was
> to
> > >let developers "blog" every function with examples.
> > > We have also a forum.. but I'm searching a way to make it work by
> > >(like this one).. perhaps someone have already this functionality.. and
> > want
> > >to participate with it.. Else I'll be forced to make it all alone :)
> > >
> > > The next step will be to make a small "rent a coder" platform but
> that's
> > >just an idea for the moment.(of course for free for the both sides
> projects
> > >ppl and coders)
> > >
> > > So I really need help to the following points:
> > >
> > > 1. Language. I'm not English.. so I need help "translating" this site.
> > > 2. Domain name. I have mivascript.org .. and I want to use it. I
> already
> > >sent some e-mails to the Miva Corporation to ask permission to use it..
> but
> > >no answer. So I don't know if I have the right to use it or not (once
> again
> > >is for the mivascript community and it is not a commercial website). I
> > >really don't want to change the domain name because I think it is very
> > >appropriate for those who are searching mivascript resources... What do
> you
> > >think?
> > > 3. The tutorial side of the website. I would like to know which would
> the
> > >best way to make this module (back-office functionality). There are some
> > >developers on the list that already done some tutorials.. so I think they
> > >can give examples about the easiest way to make it (I already integrated
> > >htmlarea editor to publish text.. so I think this can make it easier to
> > >create tutorials)
> > > 4. The Online Projects side. I don't think that is a good idea to copy
> > >sourceforge.net because it's too complicated. If someone can give ideas
> > >about how would be better to make it.. would be great.
> > > 5. Do you think it's a non-sense to make all those efforts ?
> > > 6. Do you believe that will be a dead-born project ? :)
> > >
> > > There is no preview online for the moment because is not finished. But
> > I'll
> > >be able to show something very soon. That why I wanted your opinion.. I
> > want
> > >to give everybody the possibility to participate with ideas.
> > >
> > > PS: All the website is developed in mivascript and it's a modular
> > system...
> > >so new functionality are very easy to implement. If you have other ideas
> > >just let me know..
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your efforts understanding my English.. Sorry for
> that.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Claudiu Bischoff
> > >
> > >
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