Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

[wcw]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

I think you over estimate the cost. I have tons of people who are updating MM5 modules for the first time since 2005 and 2006. Every 5 or 6 years you plunk down $10 for a module. Give me a break. There is a very small minority of stores that want nearly every update to Tool Kit and/or Coupon module. So they do it twice a year. But they are the extreme minority. They are also likely in a price group and take advantage of deal of the day and other coupon offers so the cost is more like $6 twice a year to update. Then there are those infrequent API changes that make it necessary to update a module only if you also update Miva Merchant with its new API. I can't speak for others. I would hope nobody is price gouging and truly have expenses related to those minimal recurring charges.

[lesliekirk]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Bill, you're example is one that I cited. A $10 upgrade fee per module when ever a customer feels it necessary to update a module is easier for most small businesses to handle.

The concern is a monthly subscription times the number of modules requiring the subscriptions. That does add up quickly.

[nottheusual1]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Bill:"I think you over estimate the cost."

Bill, I spent over $300 just replacing and/or upgrading your modules when switching to a 5.5 store. Since then I've upgraded them all at an additional cost - Toolkit 3 times, alone.

Mind you, I love your modules and many things we do couldn't be done without them - I have no problem dropping $10 for the new features. You remain a God among our developers.

MIVA gets $350 a year, Sebenza now wants 50% of their module cost to do an upgrade, the Viking FEDEX module that I bought a while back is now a flat fee to get in the program and another $5 a month. Ditto every other module from them

With the core product in flux, upgrades are a necessity.

While I may be a tad high on my estimate, my credit card bill is, too, and more customers are asking about less expensive solutions.

Where do you invest your time - getting better at PHP or learning MIVA (and relearning it)?

It's our reality - your mileage may vary ...

[wcw]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Leslie - I have to agree with you and think that subscriptions for modules should not exceed the subscription of the core product. But that would be hard since like you observed, MANY stores have 5-6 modules in them. I've seen many with double that. I have store designers who buy the starter kit (which includes 11 mods) for every store they build. Lucky for them, when they update it is $10 (or lower) for the entire starter kit (less than $1 per module). So not only do they save by buying the starter kit, but they save big when updating. As long as I am doing this, I'll try to give folks the best bang for the buck. When/if I retire, I hope everybody will be pleasantly surprised with the legacy plan.

However, the old system where Miva updated the version number every couple years and you had to buy the updated modules no longer exists. So modules developers do have to make a few bucks now and then. We too have kids to feed and houses to pay for.

[wcw]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Bill, I spent over $300 just replacing and/or upgrading your modules when switching to a 5.5 store. Since then I've upgraded them all at an additional cost - Toolkit 3 times, alone.

For one domain, $300 seems a bit high. You are in a price group so you should not have been paying the full $10. Even if you were, that would be 30 modules. I do not know of any store that has 30 of my modules in it.

Tool Kit. Only update when you see a "must have" feature. The ratings and reviews or save basket features recently come to mind. If those features weren't worth $10 to you, then you should not have updated. The module is already the best bang for the buck. There is no incentive to add new features unless I charge a minimal amount for them. Would you rather have a stale mod that never changes or one that adds things like ratings/review, simple search to enhance a Facebook interface, save baskets to email address, etc for the cost of a couple mochas?

Also, consider this. All of my modules are licensed by domain. So you buy a domain license and use in all your stores in that domain. I know of some domains that have well over a dozen stores. So what are you paying for a Tool Kit per store; $4 or less....

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

nottheusual1,

Your math is very atypical. For starters the $349 a year to us, is only if you choose not to host with us or with an authorized Miva Merchant host. Street price for Miva Merchant hosting for a typical store is $49.95 a month including the license fee.

Also when looking at a typical store, $300 a year in module fees would also be surprising. Most modules aren't Viking Coders and don't contain a $5 a month fee. In my estimation average cost between hosting, Miva Merchant licenses and Module costs is going to be roughly $60 a month.

If you're comparing that to OS Commerce which is mostly dead or Magento which has grown up in their place, you'll find that running Magento's "free" version for $60 a month in hosting costs only is near impossible since it's a gigantic resource hog.

[nottheusual1]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Rick:

I run my own servers and don't need a host - 6 of them right now. Hosting isn't a challenge anymore.

While I appreciate your fervor for the MIVA product (BTW - I've been using it for over 10 years, now - about as long as you've been involved), not everyone shares it.

Dis osCommerce and Magento all you want, but customers ask for it by name.

The typical "end user" still doesn't know the MIVA name and/or appreciate the longevity of the brand or the brilliance of the payed developer community.

The additional layer of complexity of having the developer community now implementing revenue enhancers muddies the waters further.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers and I'm not trying to take anything away, just being honest.

Customers may always be right, but not always bright ...

[wcw]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Customers may always be right, but not always bright ...

I love that line. This is the first time I've heard it.

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

nottheusual1,

I wasn't trying to be defensive, just pointing out that your situation is atypical. The fact that you host your own sites proves that point. Our average customer doesn't know anything about servers or hosting (for that matter we have some hosts who don't know much about servers or hosting either, but that's a different topic ;))

You're correct about some of our marketing challenges, and I think that leads to my second point, which is that "free" isn't always and in fact is rarely free, but that can be very hard to explain until it's "too late"

My experience examining Magento specifically is that their free product is far more expensive to run on a monthly basis than a typical Miva Merchant customer would pay.

Also we appreciate (and of course me personally) that you've been running us for 10+ years. It's a fine line discussing these kinds of issues publicly and making sure that we're being as transparent as possible without coming off like righteous jerks (and I'm sure I cross that line sometimes).

[Bruce - PhosphorMedia]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

And to add fuel to the fire...

...the answer might be...you need better customers. Ones who are actually making money on through their site. If you aren't yea, its pretty hard to justify spending $1 per month. For example, I pass on potential clients who won't spend the extra 10 to 30 a month it really costs to host a Merchant site. Why, cause they wont be in business for long anyway, so the returns on our investment are not that great.

[nottheusual1]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Bruce:

You lead a blessed life if you can so cavalierly pass on projects.

I've had most of my customers 6+ years. They are doing just fine .....

[lesliekirk]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Before this thread gets too far out of hand, I've moved my thoughts to an Off Topic thread. I'd hate to have to put myself in time out ;)

Leslie

[Robin]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

And to add fuel to the fire...

...the answer might be...you need better customers. Ones who are actually making money on through their site. If you aren't yea, its pretty hard to justify spending $1 per month. For example, I pass on potential clients who won't spend the extra 10 to 30 a month it really costs to host a Merchant site. Why, cause they wont be in business for long anyway, so the returns on our investment are not that great.

What a terrible thing to say. I started this thread to generate topic discussion and the bigger picture.....where does it end? I gladly pay my hosting fee (which seems beneath you), I gladly pay for all module upgrades when I need them, and I gladly pay for any extra support requirements. My issue when starting this thread was a continuing subscription fee requirement.

[Bruce - PhosphorMedia]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Bruce:

You lead a blessed life if you can so cavalierly pass on projects.

I've had most of my customers 6+ years. They are doing just fine .....

True, but not for the reasons you seem to imagine. I'm simply able to "do the math" and learn from experience. I've been doing this for over 12 years, previously I worked for companies such as Microsoft and Amazon. I've also worked in start-ups in garages (if we where lucky). The issues are all the same. Success depends on a lot of things, but never comes without an investment. Making 'smart' investments is generally the number one factor between success and failure, be that investment be of sweat or dollars.

(P.S. I have clients that have been with me for over 12 years. )

[nottheusual1]

Re: Viking Coupon Module v5 Update Available

Bruce -

I'm glad your bona fides and customer base are so well in place, and I'll offer well deserved props for Storeman - it's been a lifesaver for our 4.xx stores.

We've both been doing this for about the same amount of time, and I agree with what you have stated, for the most part.

But without understanding the business conditions of the questioner, broad brush strokes or unsolicited "advice" (no matter how saged it may be) can chafe, or worse, seem condescending.