Can't get to the EmporiumPlus docs

[lesliekirk]

I still rely on the EmporiumPlus docs for a number of Bill's modules, but I can't reach the page: https://www.emporiumplus.com/docs/ I understand that at some point in time (which might be now) that all of this will go away, but are these docs going to be archived someplace, please?

[Nerd Boy Inc]

Looks like the Way Back Machine last Archived it back in Feb. 2020. You can still get to most of the Documentation via the Way Back Machine URL using : https://www.emporiumplus.com/docs/ and using Links on the Right Side of the Screen. I tried several and they all worked, but Links on the Left Side of Screen seem not to work. They are supposed to Redirect to a Miva Page, but they do not seem to be working.

[lesliekirk]

Looks like the Way Back Machine last Archived it back in Feb. 2020. You can still get to most of the Documentation via the Way Back Machine URL using : https://www.emporiumplus.com/docs/ and using Links on the Right Side of the Screen. I tried several and they all worked, but Links on the Left Side of Screen seem not to work. They are supposed to Redirect to a Miva Page, but they do not seem to be working.

Yeah, sigh, I know...it's just not the same. I've been able to type that URL in for so long now and find exactly what I needed. I was trying to find something today for Image Checker module he had (and that a client website might need)...

[jsdva]

I still rely on the EmporiumPlus docs for a number of Bill's modules, but I can't reach the page: https://www.emporiumplus.com/docs/ I understand that at some point in time (which might be now) that all of this will go away, but are these docs going to be archived someplace, please?

I am 100% in favor of them being archived someplace as well.

[lesliekirk]

GOOD NEWS!!! Looks like it was just a temporary glitch but yeah, maybe we should ask about having them archived somewhere.

[Rick Wilson]

It's worth noting these modules are slated to be "hard deprecated" in the reasonably near future, which means anything being done with an old EP module should be replaced with native functionality and if you can't do what you need natively you should let us know so we can see if we think that needs to be addressed.

However it's important to know that not only will we not add any feature to an EP modules, at this point if a show stopping bug is discovered, we're far more likely to pull the module completely than fix it (unless there is no alternative way to do it natively but that's rare).

[lesliekirk]

It's worth noting these modules are slated to be "hard deprecated" in the reasonably near future, which means anything being done with an old EP module should be replaced with native functionality and if you can't do what you need natively you should let us know so we can see if we think that needs to be addressed.

However it's important to know that not only will we not add any feature to an EP modules, at this point if a show stopping bug is discovered, we're far more likely to pull the module completely than fix it (unless there is no alternative way to do it natively but that's rare).

That's very understood. Having the docs for these modules could be used a reference for ideas that might be included in a future release. For example, I was looking at what the EP Image Checker module did. It used to be a good tool to find products that didn't have images. The current Image Management can find images that don't have products but not the other way around. The current method is to export a product file with Image Type column which "assumes" all of the images have an Image Type assigned to it. Then sort the Image Type field and find the missing paths. This would be a great built-in feature.

There are a number of other of the EP modules that are still useful - the Miscellaneous Fee abilities comes to mind. That would be a great feature to add. Another thought would be to ask store owners if they are still using the EmporiumPlus modules, find out which ones and let them know if a native feature is available to replace it. I can appreciate the end goal to get away from modules that are no longer supported as I am diligently working to convert the stores I come in contact with to native coding. LOL, my struggles are well documented in the hopes it will make it easier for someone else to make the transition.

[Rick Wilson]

We're definitely not taking the docs down anytime soon (that really was a glitch), just for posterity reminding people to not use them for new stores built in 2021.

[William Davis]

If EP Miscellaneous Fee stops working before a native substitute is released it would create a problem for us.

[Kent Multer]

I have a utility module that can replace the Miscellaneous Fee module. It does a lot of other things too. Anyone needing to replace an EP module is welcome to contact me for a solution.

[oliverands]

I still have a handful of his modules installed. It shouldn't be too much of an issue to replace them with native Miva functionality where it exists.

I think I have two modules in use that don't have native Miva functionality. The first is Basket Price Group Recalc. It seems that this ought to be native functionality, but I don't think it is. The second that I use from time to time is Export Wizard - Database to Flat File. With my store's database no longer accessible to me, I rely on that to pull down data I need that I can't get through the built-in Miva exports.

The module that is going to be really problematic if it is deprecated, though, is Emporium Plus Tool Kit. I have so many of those functions strewn throughout the site to do so many different things that losing that would be a big deal. Decommissioning that module would involve a code audit of all template pages and then a lot of work to either replace or remove any of those functions. I really hope that won't be necessary.

And, please, provide a good deal of heads up time before anything is done that will keep these modules from working in our store. It's not enough of a warning to stop an upgrade process with a message that the upgrade can't be applied until these modules are removed. I would prefer not to be under the gun of getting an upgrade installed before non compliance fees kick in.

[Bruce - PhosphorMedia]

"And, please, provide a good deal of heads up time before anything is done that will keep these modules from working in our store. It's not enough of a warning to stop an upgrade process with a message that the upgrade can't be applied until these modules are removed. I would prefer not to be under the gun of getting an upgrade installed before non compliance fees kick in."

That's why we encourage people to start now. While maybe an outside chance, but if a security upgrade gets issued say tomorrow, that is incompatible with TK, then...you've got 30 days.

[lesliekirk]

"And, please, provide a good deal of heads up time before anything is done that will keep these modules from working in our store. It's not enough of a warning to stop an upgrade process with a message that the upgrade can't be applied until these modules are removed. I would prefer not to be under the gun of getting an upgrade installed before non compliance fees kick in."

That's why we encourage people to start now. While maybe an outside chance, but if a security upgrade gets issued say tomorrow, that is incompatible with TK, then...you've got 30 days.

Yeah, I know. I have been trying for months to finish a conversion of the TK snippet to native code. There was one piece that even with the help of the group I was never ever able to get to work. I through the bit of TK code into the mix and it works exactly like I need it to. How do we get around something like that?

[lesliekirk]

FYI- for the sake of reference: https://www.miva.com/forums/forum/de...b-sub-category but it started with this: https://www.miva.com/forums/forum/de...sub-categories

[Kent Multer]

... I have been trying for months to finish a conversion of the TK snippet to native code. There was one piece that even with the help of the group I was never ever able to get to work. I through the bit of TK code into the mix and it works exactly like I need it to. How do we get around something like that?

There are basically two ways: you either learn a lot more about the internals of Miva, or you hire someone who already knows the territory.

In recent years, Miva has added features to the template language that allow it to do powerful things. But just because the language supports them, that doesn't mean that they are easy to do. The Miva database structure has grown to be quite large and sophisticated. No one will master it just by reading code snippets from forum posts or help pages.

Anything that can be done with Toolkit can be done without Toolkit. Maybe next time, instead of spending months trying to figure it out for yourself, you can contact one of the experienced free-lancers. We can probably get it working in a couple of hours.

(Sorry if that sounds harsh or self-serving; I'm a bit sleep-deprived after 3 days of traveling.)