Thinking about upgrading to 5

[VisHorizons]

I have one store running on Miva 4, and I'd love to upgrade to Miva 5, but I'm worried about how much time and effort it would take.

I have a lot of custom-made category pages (like this one). Wouldn't I have to go in and change all those links, because they have "Merchant2" in the url?

I'm sure it's easy to export/import products and categories, but does that include category and product headers/footers?

We also just put up an flap-book style Flash catalog, and I'm thinking I'd have to change all those links, a good few days worth of work in itself.

If I don't upgrade, will my site still function in the years to come? I know it would be better to upgrade, I just have to gather all the info I can before going to the boss.

Thanks for any input.

[Bruce - PhosphorMedia]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

The transfer process can be daunting...but the last thing you should worry about are inbound links. With Merchant 5, you could keep the /Merchant2/ designation in the URL if you want, but you'd be better off using what's called an .htaccess file to permentently redirect the old urls to the new one. That way you can create "better" urls such as www.domain.com/product-code.html or www.domain.com/product-name/product-code.html etc.

As for the store continuing to function for years to come...yes, it will run, BUT...will it move your business forward? (A business that is not moving forward, is basically dieing.) No.

New features such as integrating social media elements, or providing features that your customers have come to expect will be difficult if not impossible to implement. PCI compliance can become an issue. While processors are charging moderate amounts for non-compliance now, there is nothing to stop them from increasing those rates. (We have already seen some client's non-compliance fees go from 10.00/month to 20.00 or 30 per month.

Shipping gateways could also fail causing you to look at completely different shipping arrangements. For example, USPS recently introduced changes that rendered Merchant 4 store modules unusable. Fortunately, emediasales.com which is handling the VikingCoders modules made the change to the Merhcant4 version. Can't say that they would do this a year from now when the demand is less and the upgrade cost is more.

Basically, IMO, if you plan to be in business two years from now...you should be planning to upgrade now.

[VisHorizons]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

I've never thought about using htaccess to redirect to the new merchant url. That will save a huge amount of time. Thanks!

Is it easy to transfer product/category headers and footers? A lot of my categories have stuff there, and a few of my products do. I'd like to be able to transfer all that at the same time, not copy-paste from my back-up files.

[Siamese-Dream.Com]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

Another nice thing is that you can set up your site on a development subdomain, and then when it is ready to launch, your host can switch it over to make it live - as long as they are competent.

If you use OUI for your category headers and things like that, be sure to look for another thread about the OUI category export module from Ray yats at PCInet, because they are offering it for free and it will help you out.

Hope this helps.

[pldoolittle]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

But be warned that the switch (like any big change) can seriously hurt your Google rankings unless executed very carefully. We did it, thought we were prepared, are paying the price in lost revenues. Read, read, and read some more before you pull the trigger.

Bruce is right about 4.x dying out, but this is one situation where I would love a mulligan, and did in fact consider rolling back.

[Pamela Hazelton]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

You don't need to change the directory name at all, though. Even though the new version, by default, will be in the /mm5/ directory, this can always be changed to /Merchant2/ so you don't have to use 301 redirects at all.

[pldoolittle]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

We built the new store in /mm5/ then at cut time renamed /Merchant2 to /Merchant2.424/ and linked /Merchant2/ -> /mm5/

All the old links functioned and we implemented SEO links. There were some major changes to the cat page layout, and a new skin applied (with CSSui), but even pages like the product pages that were functionally identical were pushed down significantly. Some fell from top 5 to page 5...

[Pamela Hazelton]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

If the pages fell then consider a few things:

1. If the keywords and other METAs changed, this would definitely affect the rankings.

2. If the layout changed - whereas text that was closer to top was moved - this can affect rankings.

In short, what affected the ranking was most likely design changes and not the upgrade itself. I've worked with hundreds of sites on a v4 to 5.5 upgrade and the ones that kept the same metas and design experienced no real changes in page ranks, aside from what is normal on a day-to-day basis.

If anything, streamlining an existing design using CSS should help you more, since there's less code to siphon through.

Also, if the metas changed more than once, Google may have seen it as an attempt to "spoof" the engine. I have worked with sites that were put in the "dog house" for a period of time for this.

However, Google Webmaster Tools will give you an idea for the drop - it usually is based on duplicate content or missing tags.

We built the new store in /mm5/ then at cut time renamed /Merchant2 to /Merchant2.424/ and linked /Merchant2/ -> /mm5/

All the old links functioned and we implemented SEO links. There were some major changes to the cat page layout, and a new skin applied (with CSSui), but even pages like the product pages that were functionally identical were pushed down significantly. Some fell from top 5 to page 5...

[pldoolittle]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

1. If the keywords and other METAs changed, this would definitely affect the rankings.

Keywords meta went away, and descrip meta wasn't carried over properly from MM4 hacks (mistake) and was left in poor shape.

2. If the layout changed - whereas text that was closer to top was moved - this can affect rankings.

Not so much, except on category pages.

Also, if the metas changed more than once, Google may have seen it as an attempt to "spoof" the engine. I have worked with sites that were put in the "dog house" for a period of time for this.

They did. From normal but long, to all messed up, back to normal and cleaned up.

However, Google Webmaster Tools will give you an idea for the drop - it usually is based on duplicate content or missing tags.

Unfortunately, it says everything is kosher...

What do you think about 301 redirecting this;

http://www.odordestroyer.com/Merchan...Code=BDRY22CAT

to this;
www.odordestroyer.com/product/BDRY22CAT.html

I ask because historically the former has appeared as the #6 listing, and now it's the #95 listing. Google lists both, and even the /mm5/ version which is excluded and an old static copy which is also excluded.

[Siamese-Dream.Com]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

Google lists both, and even the /mm5/ version which is excluded and an old static copy which is also excluded.

How is the /mm5/ version excluded? How is the static copy excluded? Through robots.txt?

Do you have canonical links?

I do see an old category /pet-odor/ that ISN'T blocked by robots.txt and that looks like it is all duplicate content (duplicate paths).

And if you do a search on your site for something that SHOULD be a UNIQUE phrase like:

"Odor Destroyer is a formulated blend of pet odor eliminators designed to deliver maximum"

You will see that google lists thirty of your pages that have that phrase.

So you definitely have duplicates of your content indexed. You will need to remove them.

Another thing, it looks like you have your store name first in your title tags followed by the category name. Personally I would switch it around.

I wish I had more time I would look longer at your site and give you my opinions, but time is tight this weekend.

I hope this helps.

[pldoolittle]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

How is the /mm5/ version excluded? How is the static copy excluded? Through robots.txt?

Yes.

Do you have canonical links?

Now, but that's a very recent addition.

I do see an old category /pet-odor/ that ISN'T blocked by robots.txt and that looks like it is all duplicate content (duplicate paths).

Good catch. That's a old static copy. It's been there for years, so not likely it caused the problem.

And if you do a search on your site for something that SHOULD be a UNIQUE phrase like:

"Odor Destroyer is a formulated blend of pet odor eliminators designed to deliver maximum"

You will see that google lists thirty of your pages that have that phrase.

So you definitely have duplicates of your content indexed. You will need to remove them.

Yep. Just robots, or manual removal?

Another thing, it looks like you have your store name first in your title tags followed by the category name. Personally I would switch it around.

I need to check that, that is a VERY old configuration possibly predating the static directory.

I wish I had more time I would look longer at your site and give you my opinions, but time is tight this weekend.

I hope this helps.

It does, and it very appreciated.

[Siamese-Dream.Com]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

Good catch. That's a old static copy. It's been there for years, so not likely it caused the problem.

Yes, but it IS indexed by google. So, to get maximum results, redirect it to the correct current page and get rid of it.

Yep. Just robots, or manual removal?

301 redirects to the correct page (or the closest match), then delete them.

as for the page titles, this is a current page, right:

http://www.odordestroyer.com/category/OdorControl.html

The page title says:

odordestroyer.com: Pet Odor Removers

In fact, you have TWO title tags in your head. That is a Bozo No No (sorry, I am a child of the 60's)

<head>
<title>odordestroyer.com: Pet Odor Removers</title>
<base href="http://www.odordestroyer.com/Merchant2/">
<meta name="description" content="Guaranteed or your money back! Our powerful pet odor removers eliminate nasty pet odors quickly and permanently. Buy now and remove pet odors forever." />
<title>Pet Odor Removers</title>
etc...

And while on the subject of titles, you might make your titles a little more descriptive. Titles play a VERY big role in the SERPs (search engine results positions).

A title like: "Products for Dogs" is not a particularly good title. I doubt many people search the phrase "products for dogs." I would imagine they are looking for something more specific.

You can use a custom field and add something to your category (and product titles). Maybe you can say something like Dog Odor Removers or Remove Dog Odors, or something that people who are searching for your products are more likely to use.

so definitely see about getting all the duplicates 301 redirected to the right pages first and...

...Wait a minute... where's your XML site map?!?!?!

Ok, I am getting a little emotional here...

The good news is that I think there are a few concrete steps that you can take to cure some of the problems that you have been experiencing. And another good thing is that once you get them taken care of, I think your rankings will come back sooner rather than later.

The bad news is that you MIGHT need somebody to help you out. Again, I would do it, but I am jammed for the foreseeable future. In the meantime, if anybody gives any suggestions to you and you want somebody to run it by, send me a PM and I will tell you what I think. However, my opinion might not be worth the paper it is printed on, so I am warning you in advance.

Hope this helps,

Mark

[pldoolittle]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

Yes, but it IS indexed by google. So, to get maximum results, redirect it to the correct current page and get rid of it.

301 redirects to the correct page (or the closest match), then delete them.

Done. Oddly, about 1/2 was already 301'd what was indexed was the leftovers. No idea why that got stopped in mid task.

In fact, you have TWO title tags in your head. That is a Bozo No No (sorry, I am a child of the 60's)

Fubar from recent CatPageTemplates install. Fixed.

And while on the subject of titles, you might make your titles a little more descriptive. Titles play a VERY big role in the SERPs (search engine results positions).

Fixed. Also a side effect of CPT install.

...Wait a minute... where's your XML site map?!?!?!

Coming soon. I'm working with Kemper now. He wants to hold that until we do some cleanup. There was some crazy hacking in 4.24 that didn't port well to 5.5 and left a lot of garbage in the cat tree that doesn't need to be in the sitemap.

The bad news is that you MIGHT need somebody to help you out. Again, I would do it, but I am jammed for the foreseeable future. In the meantime, if anybody gives any suggestions to you and you want somebody to run it by, send me a PM and I will tell you what I think. However, my opinion might not be worth the paper it is printed on, so I am warning you in advance.

Hope this helps,

Mark

I will take you up on that, and your help is greatly appreciated. This site has been slowly built and hacked upon since the 4.1x code. Some stuff in Miva, some in static files, some in miva custom hacks. There is SO much that's being migrated/converted/forgotten it's damn near impossible to wrap my head around all of the elements that need checking and fixing. Example: The /pet-odor/ directory you pointed out probably dates back 6 years and hasn't been linked anywhere in site in at least 3-4 years.

[Siamese-Dream.Com]

Re: Thinking about upgrading to 5

Hey there, Phillip:

Good to hear you are cleaning house. I don't think it will be long before your rankings return. You have a good looking site, and getting everything "consolidated" in Merchant 5.5. is the way to go.

The /pet-odor/ directory you pointed out probably dates back 6 years and hasn't been linked anywhere in site in at least 3-4 years.

Google and some of the other search engines) don't seem to forget a page (or a URL). I have some pages that had been redirected properly about 7 or 8 years ago. I had left the 301 redirects in the htaccess file all these years.

I just looked at the file the other day and said to myself, "Surely google knows that this page has been permanently moved after 7 years." So I took the redirects out of the htaccess file.

Three days later I check webmaster tools and google says it couldn't find that page. Checked my server logs and yes, googlebot had tried calling that page.

One other thing to keep in mind is that there is an SEO triangle, with the three points being:

Content, Structure, and Links

You already have good content (you mentioned that you have articles on your site).

You are working on the structure. Make sure your content articles link properly to your product and category pages.

Think about guest blogging or writing articles for getting links back to your site.

Ultimately, SEO is a passive form of marketing (even though it takes a lot of time), and you can never truly control how you will rank. So you also have to look at active marketing.

Hope this helps.